NAS Advise/Raid 10 with 5 drives

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Dynamic

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#1305340 14-May-2015 18:16

That is an excellent point JWR mentions about a battery backup, though I suspect he means FBWC on the internal RAID card (unlikely to be included in a NAS at this price level) where I'm thinking UPS which Sideface also mentioned above.

Macuser, with that amount of data to be protected, be sure to locate a UPS on the Synology compatibility list (if you have not thought of this already).

Far far far better to have the UPS be able to tell the NAS to shut down gracefully in a power outage than to put the data at greater risk of corruption in an unexpected power outage. Chances are not great that you will be in the office to shut the NAS down manually when the mains fails. And for every time the mains fails, there will be a half dozen times when the cleaner borrows the power point or the toaster in the kitchen blows the fuse, etc.

Even if you don't lose data, the file system 'health check and repair' time on that volume of storage will take ages after a dirty shutdown.

Test your UPS shutting down the NAS. Firmware updates by either vendor have broken this functionality for me in the past.

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#1305356 14-May-2015 18:34

Dynamic:
Sideface: Array 1 is backed up to array 2 once a day.

Nice setup.

What is your strategy for recovering an accidentally deleted/damaged/overwritten file that is not noticed for a day or two? Or are these boxes for archives for finished work only?

Wherever possible an offline backup si highly desirable in case corruption on NAS1 is replicated to NAS2. Stranger things have happened.

Yep, you need an archive strategy as well.

It isn't (usually) enough just to keep a copy.

Technofreak

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#1305471 14-May-2015 21:02

macuser: Hey about to go pickup a Synology DS1515+ tomorrow, it is a 5 bay NAS box.

I'm going to run RAID 10 as it is more redundant and better suited as a backup for our photography studio.

I was thinking of putting in 5 4TB WD REDS, with 4 running in raid 10, and one in hot spare for failure protection. Will this work? Or is that bay more for SSD cache, or for RAID 5? Is it worth buying the 5th HDD? We've already prepared to buy 5, but if the device doesn't support using the 5th drive to replace one that has failed, then there is no point.

A RAID setup is not a backup. This point has been alluded to by other posters, I think it's a point worth emphasising.

RAID provides redundancy giving hopefully seamless service if a disk fails. However a corrupted file on one disk will be replicated on the other disks, or worse still a fire or other disaster will wipe out your data.

You also need a backup system. Many businesses do not need a RAID but all businesses do need a backup.

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macuser

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#1305522 14-May-2015 22:31

Technofreak:
macuser: Hey about to go pickup a Synology DS1515+ tomorrow, it is a 5 bay NAS box.

I'm going to run RAID 10 as it is more redundant and better suited as a backup for our photography studio.

I was thinking of putting in 5 4TB WD REDS, with 4 running in raid 10, and one in hot spare for failure protection. Will this work? Or is that bay more for SSD cache, or for RAID 5? Is it worth buying the 5th HDD? We've already prepared to buy 5, but if the device doesn't support using the 5th drive to replace one that has failed, then there is no point.

A RAID setup is not a backup. This point has been alluded to by other posters, I think it's a point worth emphasising.

RAID provides redundancy giving hopefully seamless service if a disk fails. However a corrupted file on one disk will be replicated on the other disks, or worse still a fire or other disaster will wipe out your data.

You also need a backup system. Many businesses do not need a RAID but all businesses do need a backup.

Honestly, I fully understand why it shouldn't be considered a backup (raid fail, hardware fail, drive fail, user error, act of god) but this will be used as as the single storage device for a lot of images- the current system is to have a bunch of internal HDD's sitting around with single copies of files (yeap, not my choice) - so in comparison to that, this will be a huge improvement.

I can only advise that this will be 'not enough' and that a backup (LTO) and keeping versions offsite is a good idea, but that's another big spend.

The final production images go to the client and that's the end of it, this is more of a 'keep the good images for a rainy day'

Probably not good enough in an environment where if the work is lost the business is screwed, but I think this is the most versatile spend for shared network drive that has great redundancy.

Thanks mate!

macuser

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#1305527 14-May-2015 22:35

Dynamic

Yeap I've picked out a UPS that seems compatible by Cyberpower, though Synology doesn't really list AU configured UPS's on their list.

Best I can do is give it a test.

Technofreak

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#1305530 14-May-2015 22:43

macuser:
Honestly, I fully understand why it shouldn't be considered a backup (raid fail, hardware fail, drive fail, user error, act of god) but this will be used as as the single storage device for a lot of images- the current system is to have a bunch of internal HDD's sitting around with single copies of files (yeap, not my choice) - so in comparison to that, this will be a huge improvement.

I can only advise that this will be 'not enough' and that a backup (LTO) and keeping versions offsite is a good idea, but that's another big spend.

The final production images go to the client and that's the end of it, this is more of a 'keep the good images for a rainy day'

Probably not good enough in an environment where if the work is lost the business is screwed, but I think this is the most versatile spend for shared network drive that has great redundancy. Thanks mate!

I fully understand. The need to do things in a piecemeal fashion is something we all have to pout up with. Good luck.

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leaplae

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#1305536 14-May-2015 22:57

Sideface:
Dynamic: .,.. What is your strategy for recovering an accidentally deleted/damaged/overwritten file that is not noticed for a day or two? Or are these boxes for archives for finished work only?

Wherever possible an offline backup is highly desirable in case corruption on NAS1 is replicated to NAS2. Stranger things have happened.

The two Synology DS1515+ boxes are for finished work only.
Mission-critical stuff (about 1% of files) is also on OneDrive.

But there is no protection from human stupidity - if I've accidentally deleted a file without noticing, and it's not still in the recycle bin, it's gone.

What I do at home is have RAID array in a Windows NAS, and then have the data stored on these drives backed up to crashplan. As far as I can tell this should be quite safe for most home use scenario's. Crashplan also has previous file version retention - 'which includes the ability to keep all versions of all files forever.' With UFB uploading online is quick.

I don't like using OneDrive as a 'backup' due to viruses like cryptolocker / cryptowall - they will rip through one drive and encrypt that also. Also note OneDrive does have a previous version feature, however I have found this to only work sometimes.

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Dynamic

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#1305706 15-May-2015 11:29

macuser: The final production images go to the client and that's the end of it, this is more of a 'keep the good images for a rainy day'

Probably not good enough in an environment where if the work is lost the business is screwed, but I think this is the most versatile spend for shared network drive that has great redundancy. Thanks mate!

4Tb External USB HDDs can be purchased for $200 on special. A couple of those and drag&drop once a month is better than no fall-back position.

I'm just working on a failed RAID system now (by complete coincidence). I'm not having any fun and the client is not happy. But they have backups.

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macuser

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#1305739 15-May-2015 12:00

Dynamic:
macuser: The final production images go to the client and that's the end of it, this is more of a 'keep the good images for a rainy day'

Probably not good enough in an environment where if the work is lost the business is screwed, but I think this is the most versatile spend for shared network drive that has great redundancy. Thanks mate!

4Tb External USB HDDs can be purchased for $200 on special. A couple of those and drag&drop once a month is better than no fall-back position.

I'm just working on a failed RAID system now (by complete coincidence). I'm not having any fun and the client is not happy. But they have backups.

Hopefully can scoop up a couple of those 5TB drives from NL when they next come on special

jpoc

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#1305781 15-May-2015 13:22

macuser:
Hopefully can scoop up a couple of those 5TB drives from NL when they next come on special

Or just buy them at anytime from Amazon.com. Same price - including shipping.

macuser

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#1309589 21-May-2015 22:55

Sorted! Thanks 'zoners

kiwigeek1

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#1309607 21-May-2015 23:55

http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/the-enterprise-cloud/choose-a-raid-level-that-works-for-you/

perhaps that link will help decide

I heard raid 10 is best as allows 2 bad drives at the same time..

often what happens with raid 5/6 rebuilding is multiple drives die at the same time while building
after all you buy a set of drives all at the same time.

Ive been running raid 5 on my media server.. 5x 4 tb.. gives 16tb for data

been a few years no drive failures yet .. fingers croessed

kiwigeek1

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#1309608 22-May-2015 00:02

also a good point from a writer

While the other reply is very old…if I ran into this…other people still are, too. RAID 5 is not “less than” RAID 10, which incorrectly implies that the higher number is better, instead of demonstrating that it’s a combination RAID set.

In case I’m not being clear, RAID 10 is 1+0, not “ten”. This distinction is important for two reasons: 1) RAID 01 isn’t RAID 1, which is what we’d get pronouncing it as a number, and 2) if we imply that higher is better, RAID 50 should be even better still…when it’s just a different way of doing things. This just isn’t what “5” vs “10” vs “50” means.

For the relevant discussion:
* RAID 01 = a mirrored stripe set
* RAID 10 = a striped mirror set
and…not to distract from the point, the general consensus is that RAID 1+0 is a good choice today.

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