USB sticks for backup (Sandisk Extremes).

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ANglEAUT

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#1750285 29-Mar-2017 16:54

rayonline: ... Encryption yes probably using something like TrueCrypt.

You may want to consider an alternative to TrueCrypt as that is no longer actively developed.

VeraCrypt is a fork of and compatible with TrueCrypt.

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timmmay

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#1750286 29-Mar-2017 16:55

lucky015:

It's safe to assume that ALL mechanical drives are at risk during any movement of the drive even while powered off, While failure is not typically high on these devices I'd suggest they are most likely to fail during any physical movement of the device which could be an issue for this type of usage as you can't tell it has failed until you attempt to retrieve the data.

I keep a couple of 3.5" hard drives at work, in enclosures, I keep them in a lightly lined bag. They've been going backwards and forwards for 5 years with no problems at all.

rayonline:

Uploading 350GB would take a while. There is also the risk of being hacked etc.

350GB takes less than two days at 20Mbps, which is my upload speed. Even at half that it's four days. If you had a 100Mbps connection and manage 70Mbps it's 12 hours.

solutionz

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#1750297 29-Mar-2017 17:26

rayonline:

What are your thoughts about using usb sticks for backup purposes? Some of them have fast write speeds like 380MB/sec. They are a lot more portable also and maybe shock proof etc.

As with everything...depends...(on your use case).

We deployed a commercial product that included a permanently attached Bitlocker encrypted USB key which a small DB file was backed up to every night.

Obviously this backup was only indented to aid in recovery of DB in the event of a system failure; not provide geographical redundancy for DR as any such event would likely render the product unserviceable anyway.

Only problem we found was SanDisk Cruisers tended to overheat due to low surface area; switched to Kingston full aluminium body drives and had no problems across 100x installs over 24mths+.

FYI USB drives don't like constant read/write however small daily / weekly backups should be no problem.

Common rules of backups apply:

Employ multiple backup strategies (USB, NAS, cloud etc)
Ensure geographical redundancy (cloud, take drives home etc)
Test, Test, Test your backups!! (how do you restore them??)
Ensure backups are secured / encrypted.

lucky015:

It's safe to assume that ALL mechanical drives are at risk during any movement of the drive even while powered off, While failure is not typically high on these devices I'd suggest they are most likely to fail during any physical movement of the device which could be an issue for this type of usage as you can't tell it has failed until you attempt to retrieve the data.

+1, also HDD are not designed for cold storage. Heads can stick, bearing seize etc when left for a period of time.

richms

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#1750303 29-Mar-2017 17:40

Not all USB drives do wear levelling, and when you use fat 32 those parts holding the fats are constantly being written to.

At least use ntfs so you have journalling if you must use a USB stick. That will spread the writes out over a greater area, and hopefully be more recoverable if things do hit the fan.

Often data recovery from USB sticks is pretty complete as they die when their controller cant handle the flash giving errors anymore, a pro recovery place has things that read the chips directly so can get stuff back, but it will cost you. about a grand for someone I know who had to get it done. But if its a weeks worth of work gone then worth paying for.

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#1750306 29-Mar-2017 17:43

solutionz: ...switched to Kingston full aluminium body drives and had no problems across 100x installs over 24mths+....

I was a big fan of these (as they would not break when attached to a keyring) until we had 3 die in 6 months. All replaced under warranty without issue, but that was not the point.

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MadEngineer

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#1750349 29-Mar-2017 19:51

timmmay:
lucky015:

It's safe to assume that ALL mechanical drives are at risk during any movement of the drive even while powered off, While failure is not typically high on these devices I'd suggest they are most likely to fail during any physical movement of the device which could be an issue for this type of usage as you can't tell it has failed until you attempt to retrieve the data.

I keep a couple of 3.5" hard drives at work, in enclosures, I keep them in a lightly lined bag. They've been going backwards and forwards for 5 years with no problems at all.

rayonline:

Uploading 350GB would take a while. There is also the risk of being hacked etc.

350GB takes less than two days at 20Mbps, which is my upload speed. Even at half that it's four days. If you had a 100Mbps connection and manage 70Mbps it's 12 hours.

just like everyone that breaks their back after falling off a pallet lifted up by a forklift. "But I'd been doing that for years!"

You're not on Atlantis anymore, Duncan Idaho.

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#1753623 3-Apr-2017 11:23

lucky015:

It's safe to assume that ALL mechanical drives are at risk during any movement of the drive even while powered of

have you looked at the specs . They can take many G's when off (in theory) . The big risk is moving/dropping when on .
But being heavier(than a stick) will be more enclosure damage if dropped from a height .

pros & cons with any backup medium.
Its a matter of : how much you want to spend, how many copies you want , convenience (size, weight etc) etc
Having multiple backups on multiple devices is just as important as choice of backup medium.
And think about what software you use to backup with

Always do some test recoveries as well. Dont assume the backup system works :-)

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timmmay

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#1753644 3-Apr-2017 11:42

MadEngineer:

just like everyone that breaks their back after falling off a pallet lifted up by a forklift. "But I'd been doing that for years!"

They're specified to 70G while operating, 300G when turned off.

Using this velocity calculator I figure that something dropped from 1m will be moving at 4.4m/s when it hits the ground. Using this G force calculator, assuming it stops in 0.01s, the G force is 45G. If it takes a bit longer, 0.1s, that drops to 4G. Both are within spec for the hard drive.

If you're just moving it about say in a car, and don't drop it, I guess the G forces will be significantly less.

Perhaps you can provide some evidence to support your assertion that hard drives aren't reliable when moved.

MadEngineer

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#1753784 3-Apr-2017 13:50

It's just a given and commonly known that shock and movement is bad for harddrives. Maybe the model of drive you have is more resilient.

I've worked in computer building where we weren't allowed to place hard drives directly onto the workbench, rather they were placed down on a piece of foam (in their anti-static bag) and I've continued that practice to this day. Maybe they're more resilient these days.

You're not on Atlantis anymore, Duncan Idaho.

timmmay

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#1753793 3-Apr-2017 13:56

Nah, those numbers are pretty common between hard drives. Seagate are 80/300G instead of 70/300G.

Agree that you probably want to minimise shock applied to hard drives where you can, but I don't think you can reasonably say that you can't move hard drives around or they'll fail. Laptops had 2.5" disks in them for a long time that survived just fine to no doubt rough handling.

MadEngineer

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#1753798 3-Apr-2017 14:02

The number of laptops with failed or failing harddrives that I've fixed suggests otherwise, not to mention the number of so called portable drives.

This is only based on experience and I'm not suggesting it's evidence

You're not on Atlantis anymore, Duncan Idaho.

richms

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#1753816 3-Apr-2017 14:23

Because children will shove a running laptop off a chair onto the floor and other stupid things. Then the parents will take it back to work and go "It was just on the table then stopped working".

Operating G's have many conditions attached to them. I _think_ its just drive spinning but heads at rest from memory. Certainly during access you are not going to be putting much g force before they hit the platter and ruin it.

Richard rich.ms

ubergeeknz

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#1753835 3-Apr-2017 14:38

Why not do a weekly/monthly backup to USB drive(s), and then a real time cloud backup as well.

If your USB drive(s) fail, you're at least covered, although your restore will take a while.

And if not, you can seed your restore from your USB drive and speed things up.

And if worst case your cloud backup fails, you have a backup which is a week/month old.

Best of both worlds, IMO

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