Ryzen Zen3 system build including follow up.

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508 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2600022 8-Nov-2020 17:26

QVL lists for RAM means it will work regardless of CPU. Its more about ensuring the memory you are buying will work at its advertised speeds

For your use case the 3600 vs 4000 debate is going to be such a small difference in performance that its really not worth it. The numbers change in productivity work vs gaming FPS is why you go to higher speed ram on the current gen AMD systems.

And your quite on the money about getting gear from overseas for warranty and support purposes... id get local.

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timmmay

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#2600052 8-Nov-2020 18:36

I've done quite a bit of reading today. Given the lack of QVL, at least as far as I can see, that suggest immature hardware not fully tested. I agree that 3600MHz will probably not be much slower, but given 4000MHz is recommended by AMD I would try to go with that to avoid throttling a really fast CPU. Given this CPU is brand new and the platforms seem fairly immature, the lack of recommended hardware in NZ, and given my desire for stability and reliability I think I've jumped the gun a bit. So I'll either hold until after Christmas to see what the experience from the early adopters is and what I can learn from them, or if my PC goes downhill I'll get the Intel 10th gen, which is about 40% slower than the Ryzen 5600X but still 4X faster than my current system.

Thanks all who have contributed your experience and advice, I appreciate it. Hopefully this thread benefits others looking to do something similar.

everettpsycho

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Ultimate Geek

#2600098 8-Nov-2020 20:17

Watching a few early impressions the reviews of the 5000 series are a bit all over the place, they seem to be suggesting ram speeds is the cause with different reviewers test benches varying the ram. Gamers nexus and Linus tech tips got really good performance with their set ups. If you can wait a few weeks it might be worth letting those in the industry hammer the things a bit more and work out what is really going on with these variable benchmark scores as those that got better performance it was a good few percent increase, if you're spending all this money you may as well try and eek every bit of performance out of the cpu.

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#2600104 8-Nov-2020 20:28

If you do go with fast RAM make sure you switch it on via XMP or similar! Out of the box it will run at 2333 or 2600 unless XMP is enabled.

It's a trap for young players (and me for 6 months).

For your use case I don't think you will get particularly noticeable real world improvements in performance out of DDR4 4000 vs DDR4 3600 but could also be wrong. I certainly wouldn't invest significant amounts of cash for 4000 vs 3600. You can tend to get into diminishing returns.

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#2600109 8-Nov-2020 20:36

Also are you likely to want thunderbolt ports in the future? I'd guess no but Thunderbolt is much better supported on Intel.

Also if you want to make your system quieter an aftermarket CPU cooler is worth looking at. If I was you I'd build it with the stock AMD cooler, which is decent, then take a look/listen.

Going to an aftermarket cooler dropped my system temps on Ryzen by around 10 degrees with a corresponding drop in noise. Going to a high airflow case with better case cooling dropped another 10 degrees.

timmmay

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#2600115 8-Nov-2020 20:49

everettpsycho: Watching a few early impressions the reviews of the 5000 series are a bit all over the place, they seem to be suggesting ram speeds is the cause with different reviewers test benches varying the ram. Gamers nexus and Linus tech tips got really good performance with their set ups. If you can wait a few weeks it might be worth letting those in the industry hammer the things a bit more and work out what is really going on with these variable benchmark scores as those that got better performance it was a good few percent increase, if you're spending all this money you may as well try and eek every bit of performance out of the cpu.

Agree - I think I'll hold off until after Christmas until people with more time / knowledge / enthusiasm work it out and post the results online.

Handle9:

If you do go with fast RAM make sure you switch it on via XMP or similar! Out of the box it will run at 2333 or 2600 unless XMP is enabled.

It's a trap for young players (and me for 6 months).

For your use case I don't think you will get particularly noticeable real world improvements in performance out of DDR4 4000 vs DDR4 3600 but could also be wrong. I certainly wouldn't invest significant amounts of cash for 4000 vs 3600. You can tend to get into diminishing returns.

Also are you likely to want thunderbolt ports in the future? I'd guess no but Thunderbolt is much better supported on Intel.

Also if you want to make your system quieter an aftermarket CPU cooler is worth looking at. If I was you I'd build it with the stock AMD cooler, which is decent, then take a look/listen.

Going to an aftermarket cooler dropped my system temps on Ryzen by around 10 degrees with a corresponding drop in noise. Going to a high airflow case with better case cooling dropped another 10 degrees.

Good tip on XMP thanks. I wonder if I need to do that on my old 2600K? Nah.

Agree that real world performance between DDR4 3600 and 4000 is probably not noticeable at all. However, if it's $100 more for RAM and the system lasts 10 years then I figure I might as well wring all the performance I can out of it. I'd mostly go with it because AMD said it's best. The main thing is the motherboards don't seem to list a QVL / recommended RAM which makes me think the whole platform is a bit immature - or I'm not doing well with Google today.

Don't need thunderbolt, can always get an add-in card later I guess. I'd probably get the stock cooler to start and add a better one later if required - use Noctua right now but it's too big and blocks slots so I'd go for something more compact next time, maybe the 212. I mostly do CPU intensive stuff like rendering when I'm not in the room. I'll also look at cases a bit more closely, but the Fractal R5 looks ok for that. My i7 2600K PC and work laptop i7 10xxx (not sure which) both sit at about 40 degrees idle in a room that's usually about 24 degrees, both to about 65 under load the laptop a bit more. The bigger 120mm fans are pretty quiet at that temp, but the little laptop fan is really annoying.

Handle9

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#2600121 8-Nov-2020 21:10

You may be able to reuse your Noctua cooler. They are quite notorious for excellent support and often offer fitting kits for their older coolers.

Fractal R5 looks like the cooling performance will be a bit average due to the solid front but should be quiet. I have an Antec case that has a similar design and similar issues. It's always a compromise.

Lian Li cases are great, I just moved my main PC to a LANCOOL II Mesh and it's made a huge difference to cooling. It just depends what you are after really.

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timmmay

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#2600274 9-Nov-2020 08:21

Handle9:

You may be able to reuse your Noctua cooler. They are quite notorious for excellent support and often offer fitting kits for their older coolers.

Fractal R5 looks like the cooling performance will be a bit average due to the solid front but should be quiet. I have an Antec case that has a similar design and similar issues. It's always a compromise.

Lian Li cases are great, I just moved my main PC to a LANCOOL II Mesh and it's made a huge difference to cooling. It just depends what you are after really.

Interesting about Noctua. I probably wouldn't reuse because it's MASSIVE and blocks access to slots on my current motherboard. Also I will probably do something like give this computer away - it still works fine and might for years, I'm getting a new one for increased reliability.

I value quiet over cooling, given how rarely I do anything that uses a lot of CPU. I can crank up the fans when I'm doing anything like video encoding. I don't think I'd want a mesh case, to much fan noise. I'll see if PB has any Lian Li cases that are basic black / solid cases - quick look suggests not.

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#2600328 9-Nov-2020 09:42

FYI, or maybe not, my Fractal R5 with Noctua NH-U12A. Big, expensive, brown, manages to miss ram and stuff. Depends on the mobo of course.

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timmmay

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#2600352 9-Nov-2020 10:08

Mine is pretty huge, NH-C14. Have a look at the pics on that page, I'll attach one below. Depends on the board layout of course.

rb99

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#2600354 9-Nov-2020 10:18

So you could use one fan if necessary. Interesting. That page doesn't mention AM4 though. Unless I missed it. Unless I don't know what I'm talking about and it doesn't matter (unlikely I know...)

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timmmay

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#2600366 9-Nov-2020 10:40

rb99:

So you could use one fan if necessary. Interesting. That page doesn't mention AM4 though. Unless I missed it. Unless I don't know what I'm talking about and it doesn't matter (unlikely I know...)

I use one fan right now, even with that I can't fit things under it. The fan is a 10 year old model now, I'd be surprised if it was up to date.

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#2600368 9-Nov-2020 10:46

10 years. Impressive. I'm going to be so out of date in another 10 years...

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concordnz

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#2600538 9-Nov-2020 15:46

I would step up to a 512SSD, irrespective of your space requirements.

You will get better performance out of a larger SSD
Particularly the important 'Write performance'

Let me explain
SSD's run 'channels' which allows them to write to multiple 'chips' at the same time. (kind of like Raid 0)
512 GB Drives have 8 channels/chips which can be written or read at the same time.
256 GB Drives have only 4 Chips/channels.
And 128Gb Drives often have only 2 Chips/channels.
(& only a quarter of the performance of a 512Gb drive)

(I believe the current max Channels is 8, - So a 512gb is the current 'sweet spot' for best performance.

SpartanVXL

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#2600549 9-Nov-2020 15:59

Was there a recommendation for 3700 or higher? You’re doing mostly productivity workloads yet going for a 6/12 cpu with better single core aimed at gamers. If majority of your tasks benefit from multi threading it’s better to get a 3700x/3800x/3900x etc. and I would take a guess a few second hands will come around as their owners migrate upwards.

As a side note, anything above jedec specs is technically overclocking including XMP profiles. Even if it says on the box 4000MHz you won’t be guaranteed it. 3600 CL14 seems to be the safer bet (even for zen 2) so better to go with that over gambling if your IF clock will stay at 2GHz. Or just keep waiting since evidence is inconclusive at this early stage as you’ve pointed out.

You’re more likely to get better performance from better cooling that you would the difference in your RAM selection. If you let ryzen do it’s thing with auto OC and low temperatures you could eek out more multi-core clock performance vs ram performance. If you do go higher than 8core maybe best to get a dark rock pro4 or better to keep temperatures down.

Without a GPU sucking power you could probably sit on a decent 450W and be perfect. If you intend to drop a 3080/3090 for machine learning or something then yes a 650W over is recommended.

The motherboard should be fine, pbtech should be doing updates to their current stock per their news but best to confirm. Gigabyte motherboards are decent except for maybe their CSM and Power saving options in bios. Not that they don’t work but rather it’s a pain if you want to turn it off and keep it off without losing settings on a cold start (as in unplugging from wall cold).

Case recommendations are to get one with mesh instead of solid as this improves airflow by a noticeable amount. Otherwise go with what you need.

Edit: second the SSD upgrade too. You’re going to a pcie4 platform and getting the lowest performing nvme ssd tier? Seems a bit odd since you do video editing etc. and would probably benefit from better i/o. Please look at some reviews of model size as there is a added benefit of going to bigger models aside from extra storage.

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