Seemingly dead graphics card... any suggestions?

Forums › Desktop computing › Seemingly dead graphics card... any suggestions?

1 | 2

Byrned

455 posts

Ultimate Geek

#426620 12-Jan-2011 19:32

Whilst I agree with everone about pursuing it under the CGA, I do fnd it ridiculous that someone with no experience of electrical manufacturing could decide what the life expectancy of a component!

Lias

5589 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#426625 12-Jan-2011 20:10

Byrned: Whilst I agree with everone about pursuing it under the CGA, I do fnd it ridiculous that someone with no experience of electrical manufacturing could decide what the life expectancy of a component!

Because the CGA basically says "things should last as long as the average person THINKS they should and if you dont like it, dont sell your product in NZ"

Its really quite a horribly grey area legally, and if every person pushed CGA claims I think we'd either see a law change or alot of big companies simply not setting products in NZ.

However while it exists as it does, I'm happy to use it.

I'm a geek, a gamer, a dad, a Quic user, and an IT Professional. I have a full rack home lab, size 15 feet, an epic beard and Asperger's. I'm a bit of a Cypherpunk, who believes information wants to be free and the Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it. If you use my Quic signup you can also use the code R570394EKGIZ8 for free setup.

RustyGonad

495 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

#426628 12-Jan-2011 20:13

giollarnat - got your pm, however there's probably not alot that I can add that will actually help you.

The issue your going to have is firstly identify the fault in the card that caused the issue. If this happens to be a known fault with these cards (or even if its a common fault across the range of cards) then you'll probably have a case. For example Nvidia had known issues with the 8xxx series card - I personally got Playtech to replace one of those out of warranty without too much issue.

As another example the Xbox 360, and the RROD issues were well defined, well publicised, and there was plenty of evidence to support a lack of durability claim. The product is also a stand alone entity and therefore quite easy to put a case as to the reasons for failure. Just my opinion but thats an easy win.

In your case of a graphics card, there are plenty of environment variables that could have contributed to the lifespan ie heat, power, case, overclocking etc. Unless you purchased an entire PC from Playtech (if you did however then you'll probably win), and have operated it unmodified I'd say your going to struggle, simply because it would be quite easy to put together a case against your argument using a bunch of variable factors to question how it was installed and therefore operated - which could be then used to support the original warranty period.

Not trying to put you off or anything, but if they choose to fight I'd say you may have some difficulty with this one.

giollarnat

138 posts

Master Geek

#426647 12-Jan-2011 21:33

yeah RustyGonad,

thanks for your help. In this case I actually did purchase the whole PC off Playtech and haven't changed it at all, or overclocked, or anything. Just a very casual gamer looking to future proof with a semi-decent card ... and still it fails. It was second from top of the ATi range at the time though and not the most efficient card in terms of power and heat (although not bad), i know anecdotally that plenty of them have failed (e.g. my mate's 4870 after 6 months) as per forums but haven't seen any one defining issue...

anyone know of a website monitoring failure rate of graphics cards (like the German TUV reliability ratings for cars) or known problems with Radeon 4850s?

Anyway, I have the consumer.org.nz reliability for PCs which says 5 years (thanks Lias), feel like i need one or 2 other supporting docs to convince them or failing that the disputes tribunal...

giollarnat

138 posts

Master Geek

#443142 24-Feb-2011 18:30

well these Playtech guys are really disorganised and slow.

After getting me to send the card in to confirm the fault, they sent the card straight back without any relevant message, and only when prompted revealed that yes, they had checked it, and yes, it was faulty beyond repair.

At which point I asked for a refund as per CGA or at least some kind of compensation, and got various contradictory messages from various staff all roughly fobbing me off because the warranty had expired. So i mentioned the disputes tribunal and ...

Suddenly they got onto the manufacturer and managed to make a special case for them to "repair it" (what happened to "beyond repair" haha) outside of warranty. Except they want me to pay $45 for freight to HK - clearly a violation of CGA (they have to have repair facilities handy and be able to repair within a reasonable timeframe at their own expense). They are unclear about how long this will take and in typical fashion did not reply directly to my suggestion they should pay for the freight and my ballooning shipping costs.

I will go along with it for now and see what happens - if they mess me around any more i will just take it to the disputes tribunal and recover full refund, shipping, the lot...

lessons learned:
- Playtech not very customer friendly, themselves say they are short staffed, have no idea what CGA is.
- Best to take these things to the disputes tribunal early to avoid lengthy mess and educate retailers to their duties under CGA (and to customer responsiveness!). I am too soft lol.

Dratsab

3946 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#443409 25-Feb-2011 14:35

giollarnat: “Reasonable Time” is defined by the Manufacturer (Sapphire) and as well as the industry (which is 2 years). When you purchased this VGA Card, you already have entered into a contract with Sapphire and ALREADY have accepted 2 years as a reasonable time period. On our end we already have tired talking to Sapphire Rep and it was not successful; they will not accept the RMA claim. We cannot extend the warranty period as it is defined by Sapphire themselves. If you are unhappy with the warranty period, you need to contact Sapphire.

In essence they're saying they've contracted you out of the CGA - they can't do that.

giollarnat: As to consumer guarantee act, you cannot claim your rights to RMA because-

CGA 1993 – 20(1)(a)

20 Loss of right to reject goods

(1) The right to reject goods conferred by this Act shall not apply if—

(a) the right is not exercised within a reasonable time within the meaning of subsection

(2) In subsection (1)(a), the term reasonable time means a period from the time of supply of the goods in which it would be reasonable to expect the defect to become apparent having regard to—

(a) the type of goods

Majority of VGA manufacturers provided 2 years warranty to this model of card.

Now, what we can do for you is to try sending the card back for repair with our supplier. Note that there may be cost involve in doing so, and you are responsible for any costs that may incur from this process. Other option for you is that we can offer you a discounted price on a replacement something similar. But before you do anything else; please send your card in for our tech team to confirm the defect on the card then we can take it to the next step to resolve the problem with you.

Very convenient of them to leave out the full text of section 20. Subsection 1(a) - which is incomplete as quoted above - should end within the meaning of subsection (2); or and from this point subsections (2)(c) and (2)(d) - not quoted above - become quite relevant.

However, IANAL - go to your local CAB or community law office and speak with someone there about it.

Dratsab

3946 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#443416 25-Feb-2011 14:48

giollarnat: lessons learned:
- Best to take these things to the disputes tribunal early to avoid lengthy mess and educate retailers to their duties under CGA (and to customer responsiveness!).

Disagree. Best to seek proper advice first and then present that to the company, i.e. "I've sought legal advice which and have been told...". If you have to go down the litigation track after that, fair enough - but at least you'll be able to show you've exhausted all reasonable steps first. Jumping straight to the Disputes Tribunal is a bit like deciding to crack open a peanut with a sledgehammer...

Quic Broadband

Move to New Zealand's best fibre broadband service (affiliate link). Free setup code: R587125ERQ6VE. Note that to use Quic Broadband you must be comfortable with configuring your own router.

Byrned

455 posts

Ultimate Geek

#443434 25-Feb-2011 15:55

Dratsab: Disagree. Best to seek proper advice first and then present that to the company, i.e. "I've sought legal advice which and have been told...". If you have to go down the litigation track after that, fair enough - but at least you'll be able to show you've exhausted all reasonable steps first. Jumping straight to the Disputes Tribunal is a bit like deciding to crack open a peanut with a sledgehammer...

Agree with this.

How can you be seen to be a reasonable consumer when you go straight to the disputes tribunal?

Your right as a consumer is to deal with the retailer or the distributor/manufacturer - your choice. So they can't say if you don't like it, you deal with it.

And as for the "reasonable time is determined by the manufacturer" well this is utter baloney. Although I agree that in a fair world the time should be determined by them as they make what they're selling, it's actually decided by the disputes tribunal if you take it that far.

Personally I would have told them thanks for the offer, but if that is the best you can do, I'll take my chances with the disputes tribunal. If, as you've said, there is reasonable evidence that this is an ongoing problem for these cards, I would confident of winning.

As for the lesson learnt, surely that would be to know what your rights are in the first place.

giollarnat

138 posts

Master Geek

#476149 31-May-2011 11:31

Just to close off this discussion:

- I didn't mean people should jump straight to the disputes tribunal. I meant that once it's been established that a company is refusing to honour its obligations under the CGA (e.g. through lack of knowledge and/or wilful misinterpretation) despite these being spelt out for them, and isn't offering any acceptable compromise to the customer, then - they should go to the disputes tribunal. In these deadlock situations, until the customer goes or at least threatens to go to the disputes tribunal they have no real leverage over the company - which can thumb their nose at the world for as long as it chooses to. As in this case here.

As for the scenario above, as per my last post Playtech charged me $45 for freight and repair - which technically, as per the CGA, they should have to pay for. I couldn't be bothered by this point arguing over that (and that's one of the things companies rely on to avoid their duties under CGA.)

Now if only they had done this first up instead of fighting me for 3-4 months they would have saved everyone time and money...

The End.

Ragnor

8223 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#476238 31-May-2011 14:53

For your next video card buy from Computer Lounge next time, they are much better with after sales issues like this imo.

1 | 2