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timmmay

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  #2600563 9-Nov-2020 16:52
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Thanks @concordnz / @SpartanVXL.

 

I understand smaller SSDs are slower for write, but 2700MBps write / 5000MBps read is plenty for me. The read speed is about the same as the larger SSD. That disk is mostly for the OS / programs which really don't need super high performance, and uses 70GB max for me. If I get 256GB SSD I'll partition it for 128GB for the OS, 128GB for random data like caches which is what the video editing program uses when you're interactively using it, so it'll be fast. My video files live on a RAID0 mirror of spinning disks, and if I move them my project files won't work if I open them later.

 

Yes buying a very fast CPU, faster than I need, just for future proofing - if I start doing more development, docker, VMs, etc. I understand cooling and mesh cases can help performance when the computer is busy, but reducing noise is more important to me than absolute speed as the only time it will go to full CPU for more than a few seconds is batch jobs which I tend to run while I'm doing something else. I'll just put good fans in and turn them up when required.

 

I'll wait and see with RAM. If it costs $100 for faster RAM that might help in the future that's fine. If it costs double and gives me 5% then I'll get 3600 or whatever makes sense.

 

Maybe it makes more sense to get a cheaper Intel 10500 or similar based system - thing is it's half the speed (but still plenty fast enough) and the full system is only $400 cheaper, which is why I figured Ryzen was a better option. I just like the idea of AMD / Ryzen and I tend to buy the newest range - I waited six months already for Zen3 and can wait a few more months as I think my old PC will be fine for a while longer.

 

What's the better brand of motherboard Spartan? I find Gigabyte reliable.




SpartanVXL
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  #2600585 9-Nov-2020 17:33
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For your workload a 5800x would be the recommendation but I assume it doesn’t fit your range otherwise you’d have included it already. A 3700x is 15~% faster in multi-threaded workloads over a 5600x. If you get one on sale for last-gen pricing you’d get more perf for less cost. (If you were a gamer this would be the other way around)

Motherboards are tricky because there are many features when picking one. I’m good with Gigabyte because I’ve had them for three different rigs and gotten used to them (890gpa-ud3h for Phenom II, z77-ud3h for i7 3770k and now x570 aorus elite wifi for 3700x).

Gigabyte are okay with bios updates and drivers support. Bios options generally work and reliable on OC performance. One thing they kinda muck up on the CSM module for backwards compat past UEFI. Some things get funky if you disable it (normally its the other way around). ErP settings also tend to reset if you pull the plug, this is the setting that keeps your usb and lights powered when the machine is ‘off’.

MSI is reliable too, used to have glaring issues but they’ve improved. The Tomahawk b450 b550 are one of the most recommended mobos in reviews.

Asrock is also reliable for most cases although some boards like the steel legend weren’t as great as others at the same price point. Their other boards are good though like the Taichi

Asus is a tough sell in the mid-range. The hardware work okay but their bios support leave something to be desired. Even their strix and crosshair high end boards have delays for updates. I’ve got two mates with x570 TUF and they really don’t like messing with bios upgrades, one had to wipe and redo his rig due to a botched update. No idea how but it happened but it did, now they wait patiently till they hear of a stable version.

  #2600587 9-Nov-2020 17:55
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why do you need to partition a larger HDD down? what tangible benefit do you gain from it?

 

you will likely get more benefit from a 4x8GB cl14 3200/3600mhz kit than going any faster or using a 2x16GB or 2x8GB kit.




timmmay

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  #2600588 9-Nov-2020 18:05
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SpartanVXL: For your workload a 5800x would be the recommendation but I assume it doesn’t fit your range otherwise you’d have included it already. A 3700x is 15~% faster in multi-threaded workloads over a 5600x. If you get one on sale for last-gen pricing you’d get more perf for less cost. (If you were a gamer this would be the other way around)

Motherboards are tricky because there are many features when picking one. I’m good with Gigabyte because I’ve had them for three different rigs and gotten used to them (890gpa-ud3h for Phenom II, z77-ud3h for i7 3770k and now x570 aorus elite wifi for 3700x).

Gigabyte are okay with bios updates and drivers support. Bios options generally work and reliable on OC performance. One thing they kinda muck up on the CSM module for backwards compat past UEFI. Some things get funky if you disable it (normally its the other way around). ErP settings also tend to reset if you pull the plug, this is the setting that keeps your usb and lights powered when the machine is ‘off’.

MSI is reliable too, used to have glaring issues but they’ve improved. The Tomahawk b450 b550 are one of the most recommended mobos in reviews.

Asrock is also reliable for most cases although some boards like the steel legend weren’t as great as others at the same price point. Their other boards are good though like the Taichi

Asus is a tough sell in the mid-range. The hardware work okay but their bios support leave something to be desired. Even their strix and crosshair high end boards have delays for updates. I’ve got two mates with x570 TUF and they really don’t like messing with bios upgrades, one had to wipe and redo his rig due to a botched update. No idea how but it happened but it did, now they wait patiently till they hear of a stable version.

 

Why would a 5800X be better than a 5600X? My workload is so light any modern processor is fine, I'm only going high end for future-proofing, 5800X costs more. It's worked well with the 2600K which has lasted almost a decade? 5600X over 3700X as I buy the latest generation.

 

Thanks for the motherboard thoughts to. I'd avoid ASRock as I've read bad things. Sounds like Gigabyte is a good option.

 

Jase2985:

 

why do you need to partition a larger HDD down? what tangible benefit do you gain from it?

 

you will likely get more benefit from a 4x8GB cl14 3200/3600mhz kit than going any faster or using a 2x16GB or 2x8GB kit.

 

 

I take Macrium Reflect images of my OS disk in case I need to do a rapid restore. I want to keep that image as small as practical, so I don't keep data on the same partition. I only partition because Windows 10 and software takes 70GB and I might as well use the rest of the risk.

 

Agree that more RAM is better than less faster RAM for many workloads, I read that the other day. I guess 4x8GB will distribute the reads across all four sticks instead of two for better throughput. I really don't need 32GB, 16GB is plenty, but doesn't hurt to have more RAM. At work I easily fill 16GB when I'm running two web browsers with 15 tabs (cloud infrastructure), Docker builds, IDE, email, chat, etc, etc, I could use 32GB there but even getting a 16GB laptop can take some work.


SpartanVXL
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  #2600601 9-Nov-2020 18:36
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Same reason people bought the 2700x when zen 2 came out. 8c/16t cpu was better than the 3600’s 6/12 for certain workloads. Also same reason you’d go for your old i7 2600 over a i5 2500, the hyperthreading added extra lifetime with 8 logical cores. Yes a 5800x is overkill but if you’re talking about longevity of usefulness then the extra 2/4 will benefit you, otherwise go for a 3600 save money and upgrade down the line when 5xxx gets cheaper. You would have gotten a similar convo back in the day from people saying all you need is a 4core i5, no need to get the i7 etc.

It is up to you to decide though, your money your choice.

Just a note on motherboards, they have a bunch if things that can fail. Lot of anecdotal or even recorded issues with certain models and/or revisions. Example is the Gigabyte aorus master with cold boot issues. Even my x570 aorus elite wifi will lose the wifi module if I enable ErP (needing to disable and long restart to show back up)

Best way is to punch in the mobo you’re looking at into google and append “issues”. You’ll come up with a bunch of the ‘little things’ that you only learn when you start living with it for a bit. A disclaimer though because almost every motherboard has a few bugs, just gotta decide what you can live with (major features will work, maybe sound card dies or usb controller fizzles).

timmmay

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  #2600611 9-Nov-2020 18:53
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Thanks Spartan, that's useful. I was considering getting a low end 3xxx series Ryzen and upgrading in a year or so when prices drop. I'll still wait a bit to see what the benchmarks / compatibility of RAM shakes out as, then will order probably early next year. Not sure two more cores will make much difference, many workloads are still constrained by a single thread / core.



rb99
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  #2600624 9-Nov-2020 19:26
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Lots of cores do wonders for Handbrake...





“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

 

rb99


 
 
 

Move to New Zealand's best fibre broadband service (affiliate link). Free setup code: R587125ERQ6VE. Note that to use Quic Broadband you must be comfortable with configuring your own router.
timmmay

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  #2600689 9-Nov-2020 20:21
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rb99:

 

Lots of cores do wonders for Handbrake...

 

 

Yeah. I queue jobs up and run them overnight. Doesn't really matter if batch jobs finish in 8 hours or 2 hours most of the time, but handy it'll be a bit faster.


mentalinc
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  #2600700 9-Nov-2020 20:58
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Not sure why you think AMD5000 is leading edge?

 

Its the very last AM4 series which AMD have been refining and getting great results from over the last few years.

 

Yes there will be a few BIOS updates over the coming period, which in some boards is insert USB drive press button, update done, reset XMP and your back rolling.

 

The whole 4000mhz speed is from 1 leaked image. I;ve not seen any real benchmarks yet showing ram speed difference (Gamers Nexus did one on 4 vs 2 DIMMS thats all). Everything else is basically going from Zen2 and saying well its the same memory controller...

 

Happy to have someone send a link with facts and real testing of memory speeds. 





CPU: AMD 5900x | RAM: GSKILL Trident Z Neo RGB F4-3600C16D-32GTZNC-32-GB | MB:  Asus X570-E | GFX: EVGA FTW3 Ultra RTX 3080Ti| Monitor: LG 27GL850-B 2560x1440

 

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Handle9
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  #2600703 9-Nov-2020 21:07
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mentalinc:

 

Not sure why you think AMD5000 is leading edge?

 

 

Umm what is leading edge in the PC space then?


timmmay

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  #2600704 9-Nov-2020 21:19
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mentalinc:

 

Not sure why you think AMD5000 is leading edge?

 

Its the very last AM4 series which AMD have been refining and getting great results from over the last few years.

 

 

Because of benchmarks and tech news. They're fast and pretty good value. Yes Ryzen 5000 are probably the last AM4 board, but that's not really relevant as CPU upgrades are rare these day. Back in the early days of computers people might have upgraded CPUs, these days any modern CPU is so fast that a non-gamer will probably use the machine until it fails.

 

I could wait for Zen4 and / or DDR5, but that's what another year, two? I have a PC with parts failing and I need to buy before too long. I can go Ryzen or AMD. I'm currently thinking AMD is faster, I'll wait a few months for others to work out the kinks, but the Intel 10xxx series is fast enough and probably a safer bet if I need to buy immediately. Then there's the cheap Zen2 option, upgrading to a Ryzen 5000 later.


mentalinc
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  #2600710 9-Nov-2020 21:31
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I guess I hear leading edge and think, beta, not ready for production. Instead of the latest and greatest.





CPU: AMD 5900x | RAM: GSKILL Trident Z Neo RGB F4-3600C16D-32GTZNC-32-GB | MB:  Asus X570-E | GFX: EVGA FTW3 Ultra RTX 3080Ti| Monitor: LG 27GL850-B 2560x1440

 

Quic: https://account.quic.nz/refer/473833 R473833EQKIBX 


  #2600748 10-Nov-2020 05:23
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rb99:

 

Lots of cores do wonders for Handbrake...

 

 

a GPU does more

 

about 3-4x faster with a GPU than 6c/12t cpu, and thats a very modest cpu not a high end one


timmmay

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  #2600749 10-Nov-2020 05:25
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mentalinc:

 

I guess I hear leading edge and think, beta, not ready for production. Instead of the latest and greatest.

 

 

It's open to interpretation, but in this context I think of it as developed and available rather than beta. You don't really get beta CPUs.


rb99
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  #2600799 10-Nov-2020 09:11
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Jase2985:

 

rb99:

 

Lots of cores do wonders for Handbrake...

 

 

a GPU does more

 

about 3-4x faster with a GPU than 6c/12t cpu, and thats a very modest cpu not a high end one

 

 

True, though I read somewhere you get higher quality out of handbraking in software. Its probably true I couldn't actually tell the difference, but old habits die hard...





“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

 

rb99


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