Recommend a UPS for UFB modem, router, switch

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jnimmo

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#1030293 24-Apr-2014 08:47

Another option timmmay, I think my OpenUPS or picoUPS whatever it is I'm using, allows you to configure some settings. I'd have to dig out the software.
What I'm getting at, is that I think I set mine up to turn the load off after 5 minutes in an outage automatically, but then I think I have a switch wired up which can manually turn the load back on even while the power is off.
Then you can just have one or two bigger batteries and achieve the same thing...

timmmay

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#1030301 24-Apr-2014 09:01

Interested to hear what you've done jnimmo, and what you've used.

Aredwood

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#1030775 24-Apr-2014 19:24

timmmay:
Aredwood: Tell me what you are intending to use for your mains to low voltage supply and I can easily design you a simple circuit to do what you want.

I want to be able to power my ONT (fiber modem) and router in the event of a power cut or emergency - I figure telecom infrastructure will be battery backed up so should keep working. This is the main reason I switched from cable to fiber.

I've realised my primary requirement is DR, not a UPS, so I may just go with a battery, a junction box, and a cable.

However a DC UPS sounds like an interesting project. I'll probably have to use OpenUPS or similar, because the cheaper ones don't regulate the output voltage. If I go this way I'd like to have two batteries being charged by the UPS, one small, one large. The small battery will be "always on" as a UPS, the larger battery would require a manual switch to power the UPS and the equipment - this is to avoid having the big battery run flat accidentally.

I guess a diode in parallel with a switch in the path of the larger battery would work, but I have no idea of the details of the diode to use.

Thanks for any thoughts or advice :)

It seems you don't understand my question. I can tell from your earlier posts what you want to achieve. But you haven't said what power supply you will be using. Those low voltage UPS units you linked to earlier require 15 to 18Vdc on their inputs. This means you will require a power supply that converts the 240Vac mains to 15 - 18Vdc. Have you already got a power supply or if not what are you intending to get? Or don't you know what to get?

And if you are going the battery and diode route then you will still need a power supply that can output 13.5 - 14.5V and one that is regulated as well. Which can provide enough current to both charge the batteries and run your devices.

timmmay

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#1030821 24-Apr-2014 21:22

I'll buy a power supply once I work out a solution - no point jumping the gun. It may not be a standard regulated power supply, if I go with a DR solution rather than a UPS I need a battery charger rather than a regulated power supply, though it would have to be set up so a charger didn't ever have a chance to push power into the devices directly - I think they're constant current then they switch to trickle. That original cheap circuit isn't appropriate since the output isn't regulated (thanks for pointing that out) and I don't want to feed 15-18V to the router, so I'd have to use the second one I linked to which can take just 5-24VDC on the input and can output the same range.

Yep I understand what a regulated power supply is, I may have forgotten a few things about electronics I learned at uni but I remember the bulk of it, but I don't have the practical experience in this field. For example I wouldn't know what kind of diode to use, but I could probably work it out. I've built a couple of things, nothing complex, but this isn't really a complex problem - get power to electronics from a battery if the power goes out.

I guess what I'm trying to work out now is whether to go with a more complex UPS solution, along with a way to stop it draining all the power while I'm out, or just go with a simple battery charger that I can manually switch to power the devices if required. I'm thinking the latter is simpler and more elegant, since I doubt either of them will be hurt by a power cut - though I guess repeated fluctuations can't help them at all. Doing the whole UPS thing will probably cost $200 more, but a marginal benefit.

Aredwood

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#1030887 24-Apr-2014 23:08

The problem is the required circuit changes depending on what you are using for a power supply. The simplest way of doing it is to use constant voltage charging for your battery(s). Which is the same method your car alternator uses to charge it's battery. Then all you need to do is get a regulated power supply with adjustable output. Set the output to 13.8V, run it through a high current Schottky diode. (only 0.25V voltage drop) Then into your battery. This will give a charge voltage of about 13.5V which is ideal for a SLA battery that is permanently on charge. Then connect your router ect to the battery. Just add a switch and another diode to get the switch-able dual battery system you want. And some fuses of course. Those diodes are inside old computer power supplies and are high current rated.

The above is exactly the system I already have operating. (so far only powering a few things). The power supply that Im using currently is an old rectifier set out of a decommissioned telephone exchange. Made in 1981, very big and heavy, and originally supplied 50Vdc at 20A. It only needed a simple mod to get it to supply between 10 - 16Vdc. Its original volt adjustment controlls allow me to set the exact voltage I want in that range. It's completely overkill for what Im using it for.

Im considering replacing it with this http://www.jaycar.co.nz/productView.asp?ID=MP3187&w=mp3187&form=KEYWORD

That supply should be ideal for you if you get the mini UPS circuit that has the built in battery charger.

But will need to check if I can adjust it's output voltage down enough for what I need. And check what happens when it is overloaded. Does it reduce it's output voltage to keep power output within it's limits - which is exactly what I want. Or does it just completely cut out? Need to check that before using it for my system.

http://www.jaycar.co.nz/productView.asp?ID=MP3187&w=mp3187&form=KEYWORD

timmmay

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#1030999 25-Apr-2014 11:22

I think I'll go for the DR solution instead of the UPS solution, for now. Either this 12V 28AH battery (which may be massive overkill) or this 12AH battery - happy to hear thoughts on that. I would prefer a charger to a power supply, so perhaps this 12V 1A charger. Then all I'd need is the right cables to attach the battery to the router and ONT.

I do still like the sound of the UPS, but at probably $200 more all it gives me is some protection for devices I'm not sure really need protection. I'll put a surge filter on them.

ubergeeknz

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#1031601 26-Apr-2014 15:13

timmmay: I think I'll go for the DR solution instead of the UPS solution, for now. Either this 12V 28AH battery (which may be massive overkill) or this 12AH battery - happy to hear thoughts on that. I would prefer a charger to a power supply, so perhaps this 12V 1A charger. Then all I'd need is the right cables to attach the battery to the router and ONT.

I do still like the sound of the UPS, but at probably $200 more all it gives me is some protection for devices I'm not sure really need protection. I'll put a surge filter on them.

A 1A charger is probably not going to cut it, you need to take into account the usage of all the attached devices and then add some so the battery can still charge whilst all the devices run.

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timmmay

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#1031604 26-Apr-2014 15:22

I will never charge the batteries while the devices run - it'll run off the mains most of the time. The only time it will run is during a power cut. SLA batteries seem to like to charge around 500mah constant current, then trickle to keep them topped off, so I don't know if a larger one is really necessary. If I was using the UPS solution running the devices and charging the battery then yes, you'd be right.

jnimmo

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#1122220 4-Sep-2014 22:32

timmmay have you seen this Multifunction DC 12V 5Amp Uninterruptible Power Supply before?

What renewed my interest in the subject is I've just wasted a few hours trying to work out what is wrong with my internet tonight. Thought it might have been DSL, my modem, the router, the picoUPS or DC-DC converter, but turned out the 16V laptop adapter must have died, so my battery must have been getting a bit low and the Airport Extreme kept rebooting every few minutes.

It would be a great little earner if someone manufactured a NZ UFB UPS complete with Chorus OTN power connector and an output for the home router.

jnimmo

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#1122226 4-Sep-2014 23:01

Also, for kicks check out this beautiful beautiful http://www.remotesiteproducts.com/p-14635-phoenix-contact-2320461-dcdc-ups-24-vdc-40a-wobattery-quint.aspx
Or from page 37 at https://www.phoenixcontact.com/assets/downloads_ed/global/web_dwl_promotion/52004103_EN_EN_Power_Supplies_UPS_LoRes.pdf

Much more realistic would be this one though http://www.remotesiteproducts.com/p-774-cyber-cs24u12v-12-dc-ups-12-vdc-2a-w12ah-battery.aspx

http://www.cpsww.co.nz/products/fttx_telecom/csn27u12v.htm

Loving that last one I think but can't tell if you can fit a bigger battery than a 7AH one in it

timmmay

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#1122270 5-Sep-2014 07:13

Interesting options, thanks. This is still on my radar, just not high priority. I plan for more like a $200 battery, from memory 30ah. I think it'll just be a battery charger along with the right plugs for ONT and router, I don't actually want a UPS. My logic is if the power goes out and we're not home, if it's a UPS it'll potentially run out before we get there. On the other hand a UPS with a small battery might be fine, with a big battery on charge that can be manually hooked in.

jnimmo

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#1122743 5-Sep-2014 20:36

Yeah fair enough - bear in mind you would also need a buck-boost converter to regulate the voltage from the battery. The CyberPower units do have a cold start facility i.e. you could just have it plugged in charging & either turned off I assume or no load on it, then turn on and connect load when and if required.
So either a charging circuit + DC-DC adapter or like the picoUPS + DC-DC, but then you're probably looking at the cost of CyberPower.

Here is my current setup.. really don't want to post it here with it looking so messy but here goes. I'm hoping to get a Fritz!box soon so I can replace 3 devices with 1, which will make it significantly tidier!

timmmay

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#1122747 5-Sep-2014 20:59

jnimmo, can you give a bit more detail? Interested to hear what you've done, aims, reasoning, logic, etc. The ONT plug is a bit of a challenge, but the rest is probably fairly simple.

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