Basic questions on home networking

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#635464 4-Jun-2012 14:29

I use Ubiquiti instant AF's which give 18V out, or Level One do a splitter that has a multi voltage output.

PeterBC

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#635803 5-Jun-2012 08:29

Hi Sbiddle. I am using the 4/5 pair for telephone signals. This rules out Mode B POE and hence passive (I think). That's a pity, as passive would otherwise be the by far the most economical solution. I have learned, too late, the painful lesson here that going to VOIP is as much about alarms and power supply as data and telecoms and that this needs to be built into your planning right from the start. I can still do it but at the cost of much more expensive gear. Maybe this could be highlighted in your excellent tutorial?

Any pictures of cable management anyone?

sbiddle

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#635805 5-Jun-2012 08:31

Using splitters should be a worse case scenario. Not only do you not have the option to use PoE, but you also can't move to Gigabit.

PeterBC

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#635962 5-Jun-2012 11:58

I don't think that I have lost the ability to go to gigabit, not that I see that as particularly important at present. I am wiring all the wall-jacks as 8P8C. Put in an 8P2C plug and the wall-jack is a phone outlet, use an Ethernet patch cable and it's a data outlet. To move to Gigabit would simply mean that I would have to go to mostly wireless phones and at the star point move the 4/5 pairs from the phone disconnect to the Ethernet patch panel. Since this house is fairly easy to add cable to, I could even avoid that if necessary.

Of course passive POE isn't possible with Gigabit either.

richms

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#635968 5-Jun-2012 12:06

wait - are you saying you have ethernet on the 100 meg pairs while still having phone connected on the inner pair and it is connected to an analog phoneline?

Richard rich.ms

PeterBC

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#636033 5-Jun-2012 13:27

Not yet connected, house being done up before moving in. Not sure whether to go Voip or not, at first anyway, so yes, there could be an analogue phone on the inner pair. I am told, have read, that that shouldn't be a problem. Until and if I go to Gigabit that is.

richms

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#636055 5-Jun-2012 13:57

It will be unless you disconnect it as 100 meg devices tend to short out unused pairs on many designs

Richard rich.ms

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cyril7

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#636078 5-Jun-2012 14:10

Hi, surely Peter was implying that the voice pair was only connected to the phone RJ45 and the remaining pairs to the ethernet one? in which case its not a problem.

Cyril

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#636087 5-Jun-2012 14:15

cyril7: Hi, surely Peter was implying that the voice pair was only connected to the phone RJ45 and the remaining pairs to the ethernet one? in which case its not a problem.

Cyril

Dont think so:

I am wiring all the wall-jacks as 8P8C. Put in an 8P2C plug and the wall-jack is a phone outlet, use an Ethernet patch cable and it's a data outlet.

Richard rich.ms

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#636096 5-Jun-2012 14:21

Hi Richard, I stand corrected, Peter if you intend to do as you propose you will have problems. you are better off wiring full 8P8C and use separate phone/data splitters, that way all the permanent wiring is full standard and its clear what is in place.

Cyril

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#636122 5-Jun-2012 14:45

PeterBC: Hi Sbiddle. I am using the 4/5 pair for telephone signals. This rules out Mode B POE and hence passive (I think). That's a pity, as passive would otherwise be the by far the most economical solution. I have learned, too late, the painful lesson here that going to VOIP is as much about alarms and power supply as data and telecoms and that this needs to be built into your planning right from the start. I can still do it but at the cost of much more expensive gear. Maybe this could be highlighted in your excellent tutorial?

Any pictures of cable management anyone?

Seriously mate, I tried that years ago and it doesn't work or if it does - is dodgy as ****. If you can install plenty of runs or use splitters.

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PeterBC

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#636211 5-Jun-2012 17:32

richms: It will be unless you disconnect it as 100 meg devices tend to short out unused pairs on many designs

This is bad news! Do you mean to say that by recommending RJ45 wall-jacks for phones, Telecom has created a situation where, if someone inadvertently plugs in an ethernet cord into the phone outlet, they will short out the entire phone system? That's nuts. If that is the case, I will be replacing half the RJ45 inserts in my dual outlet face plates with BT or RJ12. Labeling the outlets is not IMHO an adequate solution to a problem that just should not be possible! On a national basis it is virtually certain that a large number of mistaken insertions will occur every week, now that the phone and data outlets are identical, as far as insertion is concerned. I guess we should be grateful that they didn't decide to use the 230V 3-pin plug configuration for phones!.

cyril7

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#636252 5-Jun-2012 19:11

Hi Peter, yes if you plug most lan ports into a socket fed with a phone service via an RJ45 and it will short the centre pair (pins 4/5) that will loop the line, this is quite normal and I dont think venting a complaint at TelecomNZ will achieve much, its an international standard and technique.

Most folk quickly realise that they just plugged something in and the phone is full time engaged.

As mentioned earlier, if you want to go down the pair sharing path, then its best to use seperate splitters and have the fixed wall outlets fully wired, that way its clear to all users what happening (hopefully) and services delivered by the outlet are never limited in future.

Cyril

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#636263 5-Jun-2012 19:28

I will be replacing half the RJ45 inserts in my dual outlet face plates with BT or RJ12

Like Cyril says RJ45 is an international standard for structured cabling. It means joe bloggs can come to a site and know that behind that square plug on the wall is one cable with 4-pairs and it goes to the corresponding outlet on the patch panel. It means you can plug a plethora of devices in and know that they will work. Using a BT/RJ45 combo on your wall outlets is just flat out retarded to be frank. As is running one cable to an outlet you intend to plug a phone and computer in to. There is just absolutely no reason to run one cable. It is so ridiculously cheap.

cyril7

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#636270 5-Jun-2012 19:37

chevrolux:

I will be replacing half the RJ45 inserts in my dual outlet face plates with BT or RJ12

Like Cyril says RJ45 is an international standard for structured cabling. It means joe bloggs can come to a site and know that behind that square plug on the wall is one cable with 4-pairs and it goes to the corresponding outlet on the patch panel. It means you can plug a plethora of devices in and know that they will work. Using a BT/RJ45 combo on your wall outlets is just flat out retarded to be frank. As is running one cable to an outlet you intend to plug a phone and computer in to. There is just absolutely no reason to run one cable. It is so ridiculously cheap.

Well said

Cyril

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