Bridging a Spark Modem/Router to Netgear D6200

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Dingbatt

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#236060 16-May-2018 11:42

I have started this thread on the advice of Hio77. It is a repeat of my post in Niscoupe's thread on the Spark forum concerning VDSL problems.
https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=39&topicid=235949

I have just arranged to switch from ADSL to VDSL with Spark (fibre is still 13 months away in my street).
I did the arranging in-store and was provided with the Huawei HG659b modem.
I explained that my current Netgear D6200 wasn't capable of VDSL so needed a VDSL modem with the intention of still using the D6200 as the wifi router, mainly because I have all sorts of address reservations, dynamic dns(?) and port forwarding set up on it.
The house has a master splitter fitted (Telequip DSL1518 VDSL Splitter written on it) and the current D6200 is connected to a phone jack on the modem side of the splitter.
I don't have a huge amount of faith in what I was told in-store because I was also told the HG659b wasn't capable of ADSL, but according to the manual, it is.

Can I connect the Spark router to the phone jack currently used by my ADSL router using the supplied (grey) ADSL lead and still get VDSL when it is switched over?
Or do I need an RJ45 socket connected to the splitter fitted by a technician and use the provided (black) VDSL cable? Will the grey cable compromise the VDSL performance?

Is my plan to use the HG659b as a modem only, in bridge mode sensible?
Or am I better to cut my losses and use all the modem/router functions it offers and go through the pain of configuring everything all over again? The reason being, when fibre arrives next year I intend to get it, retaining our landline (for family reasons). From the simplistic diagram in the user manual it looks like we will then get a fibre modem connected to the ONT that then goes into the WAN port of the HG659b. So it surely would be able to be connected to the WAN port on the D6200 just as easily?

If I connect the HG659b up now (with ADSL) will it automatically sense the changeover to VDSL? Maybe requiring only a reboot? Manual says can't be connected in bridge mode on ADSL though so this would only be if I ditch the Netgear altogether.

I believe, having signed up for 12 months with Spark we are entitled to get VDSL 'installed', and as such should be able to get whatever connections are required.

I note the box the router came in says VDSL 2 splitter required, so maybe some installation will be required?

If not, can I preconfigure the HG659b with all the reserved IP addresses etc prior to connecting it to the internet. Or does it need to 'phone home' as an initialisation step?

Would be interested though to hear people's opinions on the Huawei vs the Netgear D6200 as a modem/router anyway. I like the Netgear Genie interface for accessing the router. Can't imagine the Huawei will be as user friendly but if it is a better router all round than the Netgear it may be worth the setup pain.

I got answers to some of the above questions in the other thread but would appreciate any input.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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'That VDSL Cat'
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#2016758 16-May-2018 11:48

Oh, context.

your on spark, You will have to keep using PPPoA or double nat for the time being.

For VDSL, the D6200 will not work as a modem.

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Dingbatt

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#2016763 16-May-2018 12:06

hio77:
Oh, context.

you're on spark, You will have to keep using PPPoA or double nat for the time being.

For VDSL, the D6200 will not work as a modem.

Hence my questions.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

cyril7

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#2016767 16-May-2018 12:13

Hi, Hio mentioned double natting as an option, which I know he knows is not a good solution but is an easy option, you could see if you can turn NAT off on the D6200 and add a static route on the H659, but ideally just bridge the H659 is the ideal solution if you must keep the D6200.

Edit last comment re why keep the D6200 removed as it probably has superiour wireless to the H659

Cyril

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#2016822 16-May-2018 13:36

Some ISP supplied modems simply wont port forward or DMZ all ports . Might have same issue with bridging ?

Easiest option to try : DMZ to Netgear might work ,but some ports might not. Its a matter of try it & see.

cyril7

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#2016859 16-May-2018 14:21

Hi, the 659 most definitely bridges, and will pass everything onto a downstream router.

Cyril

Dingbatt

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#2017022 16-May-2018 17:50

Have just spent the afternoon with the HG659b connected trying to work through the address assignments. The first problem was using the existing LAN addresses for various devices because Huawei has decided to reserve that particular range for its guest wifi network. So I will need to work out the devices that will need to be manually configured to a new IP address.
After going around in circles for about two hours I gave up and reconnected the Netgear ADSL router.
I'm unable to play around with things for a few days so I'm hoping when the VDSL changeover happens (with luck next week) I can attach the Huawei in bridge mode and not need to reconfigure everything.
Otherwise I'll bite the bullet and just use the Huawei for everything.

When our DSL splitter was originally installed the 'modem' wires were connected to a standard telephone socket by the installer. So at the moment the cable to the router has a telephone plug on the wall end. None of the cables supplied with the Huawei have that telephone plug, but the cable used with the Netgear worked perfectly well in the Huawei. But that was with an ADSL connection. As you can tell, I'm not really that au fait with the required wiring, but if the connection works for ADSL will it work for VDSL in the Huawei?

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

hio77

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#2017025 16-May-2018 18:01

That cable will work perfectly in your case yes.

Minor slight quality loss there, but if it's sub 1M you shouldn't notice anything different.

Sounds like your network is pretty complex, that may be an issue to work through.

the hg659b has a 32 device limit for mac tables. 16 per WLAN interface.

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AKLWestie

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#2017034 16-May-2018 18:13

Can you post a picture of the phone jack where you will plug your modem in? Also post a picture of the grey ADSL and black VDSL cable you talked about?

For the D6200, remember to get the latest firmware which supports vlan tagging (802.1Q) when you get UFB. But you may lose your settings when you do the firmware flash.

Dingbatt

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#2017111 16-May-2018 19:28

AKLWestie:
Can you post a picture of the phone jack where you will plug your modem in? Also post a picture of the grey ADSL and black VDSL cable you talked about?

For the D6200, remember to get the latest firmware which supports vlan tagging (802.1Q) when you get UFB. But you may lose your settings when you do the firmware flash.

Socket is a standard BT socket (with telepermit)
It's a standard 2m BT-RJ11 cable like this one.
https://www.mightyape.co.nz/product/2m-bt-rj11-modem-phone-cable/21555140?gclid=Cj0KCQjwre_XBRDVARIsAPf7zZjsudvQlATs_RkYEjBtDHfjwByuPLHY_K47tHpSsnM7ErTcEG0cI7waAivMEALw_wcB
I'm trying to get better speed, so is this likely to be a bottleneck? If so, I will ask the tech to put the correct socket in. From my perspective we pay the line maintenance charge for this type of thing and it is part of the 'installation' I have signed up for.
The 32 device limit may be an impediment as I have 38 devices in my reserved addresses currently. Plus a few 'floaters' looked after by the DHCP server.
Looking more and more likely that bridging is the better option.

@hio77 Thanks for the info re the cable and the device limit. Would prefer to not have to change the wall socket.

Edit: @AKLWestie Is the firmware you mention something that has to be specially flashed? Because I updated the D6200 firmware only about a week ago.

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AKLWestie

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#2017148 16-May-2018 20:11

Dingbatt:
AKLWestie:

Can you post a picture of the phone jack where you will plug your modem in? Also post a picture of the grey ADSL and black VDSL cable you talked about?

For the D6200, remember to get the latest firmware which supports vlan tagging (802.1Q) when you get UFB. But you may lose your settings when you do the firmware flash.

Socket is a standard BT socket (with telepermit)
It's a standard 2m BT-RJ11 cable like this one.
https://www.mightyape.co.nz/product/2m-bt-rj11-modem-phone-cable/21555140?gclid=Cj0KCQjwre_XBRDVARIsAPf7zZjsudvQlATs_RkYEjBtDHfjwByuPLHY_K47tHpSsnM7ErTcEG0cI7waAivMEALw_wcB
I'm trying to get better speed, so is this likely to be a bottleneck? If so, I will ask the tech to put the correct socket in. From my perspective we pay the line maintenance charge for this type of thing and it is part of the 'installation' I have signed up for.
The 32 device limit may be an impediment as I have 38 devices in my reserved addresses currently. Plus a few 'floaters' looked after by the DHCP server.
Looking more and more likely that bridging is the better option.

@hio77 Thanks for the info re the cable and the device limit. Would prefer to not have to change the wall socket.

Edit: @AKLWestie Is the firmware you mention something that has to be specially flashed? Because I updated the D6200 firmware only about a week ago.

That BT to RJ11 cable should work fine.

On the firmware side you should be all good. You should only need VLAN tagging by the D6200 when you have UFB. I believe once you get VDSL2, and have the HG659b in bridge mode, it will do the VLAN tagging for you so the D6200 do not need to worry about is. Also, the recent firmware you flashed should be all fine. I google some forums related to D6200 and some people need to flash their firmware back in 2017 to get VLAN support. So if you flashed it last week it should be all fine.

By the way, just in case you do not know (very unlikely). Once you are on VDSL2, ddDLM will find the optimal line settings for your connection. So try not to restart your HG659b until really necessary. Changing settings and/or rebooting on the D6200 should not affect the line, as it is not directly connected to it.

I do not have a D6200 and never bridged with a HG659b before. When I was on VDSL2, I have an old TG589vn in bridge mode with a separate TP-Link router. Worked very well. But your situation is technically the same as my previous setup.

By the way, what is your current line stats for ADSL?

Dingbatt

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#2017185 16-May-2018 20:36

AKLWestie:

By the way, what is your current line stats for ADSL?

Downstream 16300kbps, line attenuation 0dB, noise margin 6dB
Upstream 833kbps, line attenuation 0.5dB, noise margin 12dB

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hio77

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#2017187 16-May-2018 20:42

Dingbatt:
AKLWestie:

By the way, what is your current line stats for ADSL?

Downstream 16300kbps, line attenuation 0dB, noise margin 6dB
Upstream 833kbps, line attenuation 0.5dB, noise margin 12dB

That downstream attenuation doesn't sound right.. otherwise i'd expect you to be at like 24 right now..

probably end up in the 2xmbit mark. hard to predict given vectoring is around the corner and that introduces another vector of variability..

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Dingbatt

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#2017272 17-May-2018 05:11

hio77:
Dingbatt:
AKLWestie:

By the way, what is your current line stats for ADSL?

Downstream 16300kbps, line attenuation 0dB, noise margin 6dB
Upstream 833kbps, line attenuation 0.5dB, noise margin 12dB

That downstream attenuation doesn't sound right.. otherwise i'd expect you to be at like 24 right now..

probably end up in the 2xmbit mark. hard to predict given vectoring is around the corner and that introduces another vector of variability..

Those figures are from the Netgear Genie 'line stats' tab on the router admin page. I don't know how else to check.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

Dingbatt

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#2019497 20-May-2018 19:45

So spark have said they will do the changeover at the beginning of this coming week.
Please excuse the nooby questions.
When the change to VDSL occurs, will my current router (ADSL2 only) continue to work if still connected albeit at ADSL speeds, or will it just cease to work?
Can't afford to be without internet for too long as my son has uni assignments due. If worst comes to worst I'll just set the Huawei up and turn a bunch of connected devices off until things are sorted.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

hio77

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#2019503 20-May-2018 19:48

If you need the service to work without interruptions put the hg659b in place now.

Vdsl doesn't fallback to adsl.

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Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

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