New Drones / Toy Helicopter law coming in 1st August

Forums › Gadgets, robotics, home automation, electronics (including wearables) › New Drones / Toy Helicopter law coming in 1st August

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#1357685 3-Aug-2015 11:52

1eStar: If you read the rules they make sense.

If you are a commercial user you get a licence which enables you to use it within a framework of conditions suitable for commercial use.

If you are a non commercial user, you can fly it at home or at someone's property with their permission. If you wish to fly in a public place you should get permission. If you don't and you don't cause any trouble you may be fine. If you are a menace you may be fined. Laws are good when they have teeth for menaces.

So, if your non commercial drone causes an accident that kills say 6 people because a car crashed into a bus stop when your drone crashed into the windscreen, a fine is OK for that?

What about when the wind blows it over land that you don't have permission for?

The rules make no sense - drones should be licensed in use and in purchase. They are not toys and treating them as such is unwise.

geocom

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#1357758 3-Aug-2015 13:33

Geektastic:
1eStar: If you read the rules they make sense.

If you are a commercial user you get a licence which enables you to use it within a framework of conditions suitable for commercial use.

If you are a non commercial user, you can fly it at home or at someone's property with their permission. If you wish to fly in a public place you should get permission. If you don't and you don't cause any trouble you may be fine. If you are a menace you may be fined. Laws are good when they have teeth for menaces.

So, if your non commercial drone causes an accident that kills say 6 people because a car crashed into a bus stop when your drone crashed into the windscreen, a fine is OK for that?

What about when the wind blows it over land that you don't have permission for?

The rules make no sense - drones should be licensed in use and in purchase. They are not toys and treating them as such is unwise.

Given that you will have likely have shot it out of the air, in breach gun laws anyway. Then the chances are good that the operator will get of any trouble and you will be locked up.

Geoff E

Geektastic

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#1357796 3-Aug-2015 14:20

geocom:
Geektastic:
1eStar: If you read the rules they make sense.

If you are a commercial user you get a licence which enables you to use it within a framework of conditions suitable for commercial use.

If you are a non commercial user, you can fly it at home or at someone's property with their permission. If you wish to fly in a public place you should get permission. If you don't and you don't cause any trouble you may be fine. If you are a menace you may be fined. Laws are good when they have teeth for menaces.

So, if your non commercial drone causes an accident that kills say 6 people because a car crashed into a bus stop when your drone crashed into the windscreen, a fine is OK for that?

What about when the wind blows it over land that you don't have permission for?

The rules make no sense - drones should be licensed in use and in purchase. They are not toys and treating them as such is unwise.

Given that you will have likely have shot it out of the air, in breach gun laws anyway. Then the chances are good that the operator will get of any trouble and you will be locked up.

I can't find a law that imprisons people for missing the magpie they were shooting and accidentally hitting a drone illegally flying in their airspace....

tdgeek

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#1357807 3-Aug-2015 14:23

Interesting reads. Not to push any points, but to add info to this growing hobby interest and of interest to this thread

http://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/travel-troubles/70770639/two-airplanes-come-dangerously-close-to-a-drone-flying-above-jfk-airport

http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/gadgets/70723025/nasa-foresees-drones-as-future-personal-assistants

andrew027

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#1357815 3-Aug-2015 14:32

I'm totally in two minds about this, to be honest.

For example... I totally get Geektastic's point - if someone was flying a small, harmless toy and lost control, or the battery died, and it dropped onto the windscreen of a moving car, just the shock of it suddenly appearing could cause the driver to swerve into oncoming traffic. Dangerous stuff in the wrong hands, and "wrong" might just mean inexperienced.

But my true story: My current house has a flat roof area that's very difficult to access. Some time ago, a drainage hole for that area became blocked but I didn't know until a neighbour whose house is higher up the hill than mine knocked on my door and said that from his living room window he could see still water sitting in that area. I managed to get up there and found I owned a rooftop pool, with water more than knee-deep at one end. I estimated around three cubic metres - three tonnes of weight - over the ceiling of one room! Now I check this a couple of times a year, but a friend suggested that because it's so hard to access, he could fly a quadcopter with a camera up there in a few seconds. The one time we tried this, the guy next door saw it and complained that the copter could see people on his back deck - his daughters sunbathing, perhaps. I did mention that if I wanted to spy on his back deck all I have to do is look out of one of my bedroom windows where his deck is only metres away and in plain view (true). I didn't mention that his daughters are ugly and I wouldn't want to look at them anyway (also true, but not helpful). But his rage was something to behold - worthy of an episode of a TV show about neighbours who don't get on. And totally unfounded. But I'd probably feel exactly the same if, for example, I saw one hovering outside one of my windows.

So someone has to make a rule. And, like most things, the rules have to err on the side of caution. The problem with this is that government have left it up to councils to control. Councils will probably establish committees that will spend three years and tens of thousands of ratepayer's dollars looking into it, and come up with an unworkable solution.

geocom

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#1357816 3-Aug-2015 14:33

Geektastic:
geocom:
Geektastic:
1eStar: If you read the rules they make sense.

If you are a commercial user you get a licence which enables you to use it within a framework of conditions suitable for commercial use.

If you are a non commercial user, you can fly it at home or at someone's property with their permission. If you wish to fly in a public place you should get permission. If you don't and you don't cause any trouble you may be fine. If you are a menace you may be fined. Laws are good when they have teeth for menaces.

So, if your non commercial drone causes an accident that kills say 6 people because a car crashed into a bus stop when your drone crashed into the windscreen, a fine is OK for that?

What about when the wind blows it over land that you don't have permission for?

The rules make no sense - drones should be licensed in use and in purchase. They are not toys and treating them as such is unwise.

Given that you will have likely have shot it out of the air, in breach gun laws anyway. Then the chances are good that the operator will get of any trouble and you will be locked up.

I can't find a law that imprisons people for missing the major they were shooting and accidentally hitting a drone illegally flying in their airspace....

Really.

Incorrect identification of Target. Not checking that the target was clear of any other targets. Would sure count as careless use.

If you shot it down and it caused death you would be the one had up for manslaughter. Not the operator who may have never actually been over your property in the first place.

I have real concerns if you have legally obtained a firearms licence given that you obviously have no idea how to act safely with it.

In the event that you miss the target where is that bullet going to hit. You shot into the sky what comes up is eventually going to come down. Possibly killing someone.

Geoff E

BlueShift

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#1357836 3-Aug-2015 14:49

andrew027: I'm totally in two minds about this, to be honest.

For example... I totally get Geektastic's point - if someone was flying a small, harmless toy and lost control, or the battery died, and it dropped onto the windscreen of a moving car, just the shock of it suddenly appearing could cause the driver to swerve into oncoming traffic. Dangerous stuff in the wrong hands, and "wrong" might just mean inexperienced.

But my true story: My current house has a flat roof area that's very difficult to access. Some time ago, a drainage hole for that area became blocked but I didn't know until a neighbour whose house is higher up the hill than mine knocked on my door and said that from his living room window he could see still water sitting in that area. I managed to get up there and found I owned a rooftop pool, with water more than knee-deep at one end. I estimated around three cubic metres - three tonnes of weight - over the ceiling of one room! Now I check this a couple of times a year, but a friend suggested that because it's so hard to access, he could fly a quadcopter with a camera up there in a few seconds. The one time we tried this, the guy next door saw it and complained that the copter could see people on his back deck - his daughters sunbathing, perhaps. I did mention that if I wanted to spy on his back deck all I have to do is look out of one of my bedroom windows where his deck is only metres away and in plain view (true). I didn't mention that his daughters are ugly and I wouldn't want to look at them anyway (also true, but not helpful). But his rage was something to behold - worthy of an episode of a TV show about neighbours who don't get on. And totally unfounded. But I'd probably feel exactly the same if, for example, I saw one hovering outside one of my windows.

So someone has to make a rule. And, like most things, the rules have to err on the side of caution. The problem with this is that government have left it up to councils to control. Councils will probably establish committees that will spend three years and tens of thousands of ratepayer's dollars looking into it, and come up with an unworkable solution.

Of course in this case, you are completely within the law - you can give your friend permission to fly his copter on your property, and as long as he isn't overflying the neighbour's property, the rules are totally on your side.

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andrew027

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#1357882 3-Aug-2015 15:29

BlueShift: Of course in this case, you are completely within the law - you can give your friend permission to fly his copter on your property, and as long as he isn't overflying the neighbour's property, the rules are totally on your side.

Absolutely I was within the (then probably non-existant) rules, but that didn't stop the neighbour being irate for the perceived intent.

Jaxson

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#1357897 3-Aug-2015 15:42

There was a cool looking info site about this, but I can't google that today for some reason.

Usual story though, you can use them for spying on your neighbours, and hover above someone else's house etc, so they introduce a blanket ruling to ban it outright.
Pretty typical response where there's not money to be had...

The park thing just doesn't make sense from a taking photos of others point of view, as you can do that from the ground if you want to.
Expect it's safety though, and to some degree that's fair enough. Not sure if I want someone else trying to fly their cheap and nasty drone above my kids from either perspective really.

Compromise is pretty hard to do in legal terms, hence this sort of madness that no one in council etc knows anything about.

hashbrown

463 posts

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#1358030 3-Aug-2015 17:25

I foresee a bunch of injuries caused by people flying in cramped backyards without sufficient clearance, and kids coming out of nowhere. Hopefully councils take a sensible approach and allow flights on unused sports fields etc.

mattwnz

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#1358054 3-Aug-2015 17:50

andrew027: I'm totally in two minds about this, to be honest.

For example... I totally get Geektastic's point - if someone was flying a small, harmless toy and lost control, or the battery died, and it dropped onto the windscreen of a moving car, just the shock of it suddenly appearing could cause the driver to swerve into oncoming traffic. Dangerous stuff in the wrong hands, and "wrong" might just mean inexperienced.

The manufacturers could make these things safer by reserving power for landing. Technology exists to solve the problem of them falling out of the sky. I presume some of the better quality ones have better features in them. Regarding one falling and hitting a car, the same thing applies to birds, or things falling off tall buildings . But the odds of this happening, and hitting the widescreen rather than another part of the car are very low. I am guessing they are bring these laws in as they expect more and more people and organisations to use them. Real estate agents seem to be big users of them, and I wouldn't mind them being forced to have a special licence and training to run them, as the way they use them is more of a privacy issue with surrounding houses.

Geektastic

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#1358267 3-Aug-2015 23:26

geocom:
Geektastic:
geocom:
Geektastic:
1eStar: If you read the rules they make sense.

If you are a commercial user you get a licence which enables you to use it within a framework of conditions suitable for commercial use.

If you are a non commercial user, you can fly it at home or at someone's property with their permission. If you wish to fly in a public place you should get permission. If you don't and you don't cause any trouble you may be fine. If you are a menace you may be fined. Laws are good when they have teeth for menaces.

So, if your non commercial drone causes an accident that kills say 6 people because a car crashed into a bus stop when your drone crashed into the windscreen, a fine is OK for that?

What about when the wind blows it over land that you don't have permission for?

The rules make no sense - drones should be licensed in use and in purchase. They are not toys and treating them as such is unwise.

Given that you will have likely have shot it out of the air, in breach gun laws anyway. Then the chances are good that the operator will get of any trouble and you will be locked up.

I can't find a law that imprisons people for missing the major they were shooting and accidentally hitting a drone illegally flying in their airspace....

Really.

Incorrect identification of Target. Not checking that the target was clear of any other targets. Would sure count as careless use.

If you shot it down and it caused death you would be the one had up for manslaughter. Not the operator who may have never actually been over your property in the first place.

I have real concerns if you have legally obtained a firearms licence given that you obviously have no idea how to act safely with it.

In the event that you miss the target where is that bullet going to hit. You shot into the sky what comes up is eventually going to come down. Possibly killing someone.

A shotgun fires pellets not bullets. They will kill no one when they land. Besides, I have 18 acres and so the likelihood of hitting anyone else with anything is slim to non existent. And shooting a magpie is perfectly legal.

Geektastic

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#1358268 3-Aug-2015 23:27

mattwnz:
andrew027: I'm totally in two minds about this, to be honest.

For example... I totally get Geektastic's point - if someone was flying a small, harmless toy and lost control, or the battery died, and it dropped onto the windscreen of a moving car, just the shock of it suddenly appearing could cause the driver to swerve into oncoming traffic. Dangerous stuff in the wrong hands, and "wrong" might just mean inexperienced.

The manufacturers could make these things safer by reserving power for landing. Technology exists to solve the problem of them falling out of the sky. I presume some of the better quality ones have better features in them. Regarding one falling and hitting a car, the same thing applies to birds, or things falling off tall buildings . But the odds of this happening, and hitting the widescreen rather than another part of the car are very low. I am guessing they are bring these laws in as they expect more and more people and organisations to use them. Real estate agents seem to be big users of them, and I wouldn't mind them being forced to have a special licence and training to run them, as the way they use them is more of a privacy issue with surrounding houses.

The real estate agents often employ (at the vendors expense of course) film and photo companies to shoot the drone movies. We were offered several options when we put our place on the market.

jurgensp99

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#1358416 4-Aug-2015 10:22

Geektastic:
geocom:
Geektastic:
geocom:
Geektastic:
1eStar: If you read the rules they make sense.

If you are a commercial user you get a licence which enables you to use it within a framework of conditions suitable for commercial use.

If you are a non commercial user, you can fly it at home or at someone's property with their permission. If you wish to fly in a public place you should get permission. If you don't and you don't cause any trouble you may be fine. If you are a menace you may be fined. Laws are good when they have teeth for menaces.

So, if your non commercial drone causes an accident that kills say 6 people because a car crashed into a bus stop when your drone crashed into the windscreen, a fine is OK for that?

What about when the wind blows it over land that you don't have permission for?

The rules make no sense - drones should be licensed in use and in purchase. They are not toys and treating them as such is unwise.

Given that you will have likely have shot it out of the air, in breach gun laws anyway. Then the chances are good that the operator will get of any trouble and you will be locked up.

I can't find a law that imprisons people for missing the major they were shooting and accidentally hitting a drone illegally flying in their airspace....

Really.

Incorrect identification of Target. Not checking that the target was clear of any other targets. Would sure count as careless use.

If you shot it down and it caused death you would be the one had up for manslaughter. Not the operator who may have never actually been over your property in the first place.

I have real concerns if you have legally obtained a firearms licence given that you obviously have no idea how to act safely with it.

In the event that you miss the target where is that bullet going to hit. You shot into the sky what comes up is eventually going to come down. Possibly killing someone.

A shotgun fires pellets not bullets. They will kill no one when they land. Besides, I have 18 acres and so the likelihood of hitting anyone else with anything is slim to non existent. And shooting a magpie is perfectly legal.

From the rule Book
http://www.police.govt.nz/about-us/publication/arms-code/your-duties-and-legal-requirements

5d) Offences with firearms

It is an offence to:

Discharging a firearm, airgun, pistol or restricted weapon
in or near a dwelling house or public place so as to
endanger property or to endanger, annoy or frighten any
person.

Make of that what you will cowboy

Mark

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#1358428 4-Aug-2015 10:38

Geektastic:
Mark:
Geektastic:

Fly one over our house and I will accidentally mistake it for a magpie...

No you wouldn't, you're just being a keyboard warrior at the moment, I'm sure in reality you are like 99.999% of people and will just look at it and wonder why it's there.

Oh no - my Beretta would be out of the cupboard very quickly if someone was flying one over my house.

Of course you would ...

I'd imagine the drone owner would call the police and report that someone with a gun had shot down their toy from which you would then be up on charges of property damage as a minimum (you can't just willfully destroy people property, it being on your land (or you think it is) doesn't make it yours to destroy), pretty sure the police would then look for more severe fire arms related charges as well, and I'd say you would wave goodbye to your Beretta and license.

You do know that just because the land is in your name it doesn't mean you own the airspace above it right ?

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