Am I too old to enter tech industry?

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#2146523 17-Dec-2018 12:35

There's some excellent advice here already. If you follow any of the suggestions in this topic then please let us know what makes a difference, positive or negative, for you. It will be helpful to others.

No, you are not too old but this situation is challenging. When I was interviewing people for IT roles I noticed that age always came up as an issue for interview panels when we interviewed people in their mid to late 40s. You will undoubtedly find ageism an issue in any comparison with younger people. You might also hit a perfect storm of ageism+sexism+"motherism" (or whatever it is called) given some people's attitudes to stay-at-home mums.

You can overcome some of the concerns by being clear on who you are and what you can and can't do. How supportive is your family? If you have a husband/partner, what do they think?

But even with being clear, capable, confident and supported, my wife is experiencing ageism right now. She is trying to move into goverment social/health analysis/policy and is prepared to start at the bottom. She has just completed a relevant Masters with distinction and has more than twenty years experience studying, teaching and working in a relevant area. Recruitment agencies have said that she doesn't fit the target profile so if she were 20-30 years old with the same Masters and no work experience she would probably have more chance at these roles.

I'm going to suggest an approach that starts right now and largely ignores the issue of career and what you study. The only thing I will say about studying is that it is risky starting a 3-year degree with no qualifications if you only finish one or two years. I would go for one with, if they still exist, a certificate at one year and a diploma at two years.

If you make some changes then you also will find that your perspective starts to change too and new ideas and different vistas will open up before you.

Act younger. You may be thinking of your circumstances as more structured and inflexible than they really are - that is a problem with being older. I've noticed that younger people are more impulsive and can make a lot of short-term decisions and not worry about longer-term consequences. You could start thinking and acting shorter-term and expect opportunities to arise for you. Maybe go temping or just get any job in an organisation with a significant IT department. One of my sons completed his IT degree at Weltec (.ac.nz) and immediately got a good IT job with the organisation he'd until then been working for part-time in customer services. Maybe get involved in activities with younger people, not just your own kids: music, entertainment, sports, community groups, clubs, computer gaming, etc. Be prepared to take risks such as moving to another place to live or doing a job that you don't want to do. Dwell on the opportunities not the risks so you won't get as fearful - remember young people find it difficult to find jobs too. Become more active if you're not already - there's no need to look old and tired - you will probably need extra energy and higher immunity-levels if you want to keep up with younger people. Update your wardrobe and dress a little younger - this usually applies to men much more than women - just don't dress like a teenager.

Be techie. You are probably at a disadvantage with technology that is ubiquitous for young people - they will be faster with it and can find what they need more quickly - so start putting tech nearer to the centre of your life too. You can start right now so you will be much faster in a year from now. The added benefit of being more techie is that you will probably appear more confident and decisive.

Be efficient. Learn how to use tech to work efficiently: know what it does and doesn't do well. This is an important step to impressing people with your capability in technology. It is particularly impressive when you have experience with tech that is used or might be useful in the workplace e.g. build and run your own website (e.g. WordPress), use team-based chat/messaging (e.g. Slack), run an online forum (e.g. Discourse), and so on. If you need ideas just see what tech people are talking about here on Geekzone.

Be effective. Start working with people in the ways you might need to in a job so you know how to build good working relationships to produce teams that get work done, know how to supervise and manage people to get work done, know how to motivate people and help them to like their job so the jobs get done. Here you probably have an advantage because managing a household gives you a lot of relevant experience. Just don't be picky and critical of younger people, e.g. their lack of responsibility or commitment. Instead learn to encourage and build them up. Remember your own difficulties when you were younger.

Use all your resources. Look at your bad experiences and weaknesses as opportunities - you should have learnt a lot about yourself and there should be some way to turn this into benefits. You will find that many things that you don't think are important now could be important to your future. I'll use your first degree as an example - what a lot of potential there is in a BA! How might your language studies be useful to you now? Are you an effective communicator: able to write manuals and reports? able to derive clarity from complex text or discussions? able to present ideas clearly? Are you proficient in other languages so you could work with teams in another country? Could you do written translation to internationalise software? and so on.

GreenApples

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#2146640 17-Dec-2018 18:20

Thanks everyone for all your awesome advice. I'm thinking that it could be something a little difficult to crack, reasons being my age, me being a single Mum who would have to be a the sole breadwinner, and keeping up with the competition. I don't mean to sound defeatist, but I still haven't paid off my BA from 15 years ago! - (how long i've been a stay at home single Mum btw).

I'm not feeling so confident that adding more thousands on to my already huge student loan will pay off for me financially. I'm still going to think about it, but there is a lot to take into consideration. ICT graduate school says that they *guarantee (almost) jobs after their training. But i'm wondering if places like them including polytechs perhaps are focused sometimes more on 'bums on seats' and a cash influx, as opposed to real results in terms of graduates getting work.

A guy at the polytech suggested nursing to me, but i've read a lot of stories of graduates struggling to get work in that industry too and for terrible pay. There are a lot of news articles followed by a lot of comments. I read an article about the IT and nursing industry, - and there were plenty of comments about graduates struggling to find work, and often end up working in different fields, or going overseas, which is not a possibility for me, and it seems the best brightest and youngest stars are most sought after.

I'm still not sure what to do, nor what I could do instead. The risk is very high in my case.

gehenna

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#2146642 17-Dec-2018 18:34

I still think it wouldn't be that much of a leap for you to get into project management via a coordination role. The up-front investment would be doing a couple of foundation courses in PMP and Prince2, and maybe Agile....and most of those can be done online. Then sound out the market. You don't necessarily need to manage IT projects either, there's a range of options and industries open to a PM.

You'll already have the core skills as a single mum - you're managing the finances, making sure things are done at the right time, in the right order, by the right people. You just need to wrap some jargon around all that and learn some of the fundamentals of various methodologies and you're away.

gbwelly

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#2146651 17-Dec-2018 19:13

gehenna:

I still think it wouldn't be that much of a leap for you to get into project management via a coordination role. The up-front investment would be doing a couple of foundation courses in PMP and Prince2, and maybe Agile...

Do this.

You'd be well set to be a contract PM. If you enjoy IT then do it as a hobby, it would set you up for managing IT projects.

nova

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#2146737 17-Dec-2018 22:39

Software development would be hard to get into, and a degree wouldn't be enough by itself, you would need to be good and be able to prove it. Having a portfolio of projects / apps would help more than a degree.

The safer option is to look at the supporting IT roles. Project management and business analysis are obvious candidates, but you should also look at testing roles, especially the ones that require more technical knowledge. Test automation engineers are hard roles to fill, so if you can gain experience in selinium, appium and other similar frameworks you might become quite marketable.

When you look at job ads, try to figure out what skills are starting to trend upwards, and pick the ones you think you are best suited to.

Wellingtondave

156 posts

Master Geek

#2146748 17-Dec-2018 23:22

timmmay:

It's probably not going to be easy. At 45, most people in the industry have 20 - 25 years experience, which is a heck of a lot of background.

Should you do it? Probably. You might end up in entry level jobs like helpdesk, working your way up.

Instead of core technical I wonder if you could work in the IT area, without being a hands on technical person. Management, co-ordination, there are probably others.

Yes. Competing with literally a thousand other people (major centres) isn't going to go well, including when you may want to have a private life that others are willing to delay for a decade. But what you might have is a very particular set of skills which may help a company. i.e a different perspective or life skills as they say. Taking on something pretty technical - development or system administration might not go well, unless you find the right organisation to work for. However there are plenty of companies and govt departments which need people to manage others who aren't completely clueless managers in the technical sense.

Hammerer

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#2146795 18-Dec-2018 00:39

GreenApples:

I don't mean to sound defeatist, but I still haven't paid off my BA from 15 years ago!

I'm not feeling so confident that adding more thousands on to my already huge student loan will pay off for me financially. I'm still going to think about it, but there is a lot to take into consideration. ICT graduate school says that they *guarantee (almost) jobs after their training. But i'm wondering if places like them including polytechs perhaps are focused sometimes more on 'bums on seats' and a cash influx, as opposed to real results in terms of graduates getting work.

I'm still not sure what to do, nor what I could do instead. The risk is very high in my case.

Look at the possible outcome without considering your fears. Stick some figures on it, I've made some guesstimates to illustrate what could happen as your current position is most likely to be your worst option. So what is the risk of getting stuck close to your current position and never paying off your current loan?

If you don't do it then what are your prospects?
e.g. $50,000 p.a. at $25 an hour

If you do it and are successful then what are your prospects? In practice, Whitireia/Computer Power say they get about 90% of eligible candidates into jobs.
e.g. training cost $20,000(?) to earn $60-100,000 p.a. at $30-50 an hour

What is the difference over a 20 year working life?
e.g. a 40% chance of +$15k p.a. = -($20k +$10k) + 20 * $15k = $270k
plus a 10% chance of +$50k p.a. = -($20k + $5k) + 20 * $50k = $975k
versus a 50% chance of additional interest of $30k = -($20k + $30k) = -$50k
for an expected average return of ~$156K or $16K p.a. a third more than the base.

Do you think that it might be worth the risk?
e.g. what happens if the downside risk reduces from 50% to 20%
the expected average return increases to ~$275K or $27K p.a. 50% more than the base.

Of course, you can change the figures, add in tax effects and use a calculator in case my mental arithmetic is wrong. Remember that any positive benefit will almost entirely be disposable income that you wouldn't otherwise have.

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Technofreak

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#2146895 18-Dec-2018 09:15

But i'm wondering if places like them including polytechs perhaps are focused sometimes more on 'bums on seats' and a cash influx, as opposed to real results in terms of graduates getting work

I think you are correct. They're selling course space. Beware of their sales pitches. Ask around to find out how well their graduates are regarded, find some who has been through their course to get an opinion and to find out how many from their class got jobs using the qualifications.

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allstarnz

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#2147665 19-Dec-2018 10:48

In terms on networking, you could try getting involved in Tech Women? https://techwomen.nz/

Could be a good networking opportunity? A family friend ran this a few years back, other than that, I can't vouch a lot for it.

pctek

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#2148040 19-Dec-2018 18:25

As an older (than you) woman I can tell you:

In your favour you have become a programmer, and that is in demand.

The negative is being an older women. You will find resistance from a lot of places, "the right fit" will come up often.

You can tell after a while, the ones that don't look at you at all, during the entire interview, the ones with the prepared question sheet that they suddenly don't bother to use and such.

But there are some who don't and you're not yet 50, Get in now before you hit that decade and stay there.

GreenApples

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#2150467 25-Dec-2018 15:09

Is there anyone that would like to take me on and train me on the job?? Any christmas miracles? Also Merry Christmas to everyone

irongarment

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#2150519 25-Dec-2018 17:52

Just wanted to ask, what do you actually want? If you want to be a programmer, be one. Someone has already suggested building a portfolio. Go ahead and set up a GitHub page with a handful of your programs- which you did in your free time because it interested you. Write in Python if you like, or dabble with other languages and programming techniques (wrangling XML or playing with SQL are useful skills). They don't have to do much, but when you get to an interview and they ask you what you've worked on you'll have an answer. Saying "I haven't worked on anything because I haven't had a job yet" is not a good answer.

Listen out for problems and think about how you might solve them. Write a program to implement your ideas.

I wouldn't bother paying for more qualifications. Once you have something relevant then work experience becomes more important. And in NZ contacts are hugely important. Tell everyone what you've been working on. Someone might find it useful, or they might remember what you said and tell someone else who is interested.

Oh, and don't forget, to a recruiter you are generally just a means to get a commission.

GreenApples

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#2150701 26-Dec-2018 12:50

I'm looking for a means to an end. But hearing about graduate stories is pretty depressing. People who work in the industry now, do you actually enjoy working in this industry. Is anyone unhappy if so why?

gehenna

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#2150705 26-Dec-2018 13:28

GreenApples:
I'm looking for a means to an end. But hearing about graduate stories is pretty depressing. People who work in the industry now, do you actually enjoy working in this industry. Is anyone unhappy if so why?

I'm very happy. I have no formal qualifications, I just worked my way up from helpdesk. It doesn't have to take long if you have the aptitude to learn and the ethic to work hard.

I've provided you with what I feel is your most appropriate means to an end... Get a couple of project management foundation certs and get a foot in the door as a project coordinator.

irongarment

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#2150706 26-Dec-2018 13:40

GreenApples:
I'm looking for a means to an end. But hearing about graduate stories is pretty depressing. People who work in the industry now, do you actually enjoy working in this industry. Is anyone unhappy if so why?

That's a very open-ended question, and could be applied across any industry. And the answers are very specific to individual cases. Someone who is unhappy may be unhappy for reasons that don't apply to you.

You also need to be clear on what you are looking for. Programming is not IT. Project management is not programming. But technology is technology so it's handy to have a good understanding of how it all works if you're going to focus on any aspect of it.

Finally, guess who else has been out of the IT industry for the last 15 years... recent graduates. So, don't put yourself down.

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