Orcon+ and Interleaving

Forums › 2degrees (including Slingshot, Orcon, Flip, Stuff Fibre, MyRepublic, 2talk and Vocus) › Orcon+ and Interleaving

jfnz

211 posts

Master Geek

Trusted

#26439 22-Sep-2008 20:42

Hi.

Does Orcons unbundled ADSL2+ network come default with interleaving on or off?
Does the customer have the option of changing this setting via a call to the helpdesk?

Thanks,

Josh.

Please note: Any posts, comments, or contributions in this forum are posted by me as an individual acting in my own right and do not necessarily reflect the views of any company I work for, clients I've consulted for, or anyone else.

PhoneMonkey

49 posts

Geek

#166394 22-Sep-2008 22:07

On as standard, and yes you could call up and change it but it could cause a whole heap of stability problems.

Whats up with the line, disconection problems or speed issues?

jfnz

211 posts

Master Geek

Trusted

#166406 22-Sep-2008 23:05

Nothing is wrong with the line, I just prefer to have interleaving off as I'm a gamer.

I prefer Orcons peering compared with Telecoms' so I'm looking for reasons to make the change is all :)

traker

9 posts

Wannabe Geek

#166407 22-Sep-2008 23:07

PhoneMonkey: On as standard, and yes you could call up and change it but it could cause a whole heap of stability problems.

Whats up with the line, disconection problems or speed issues?

Hi, I have seen this 'Interleaving' mentioned previously, what is it and what does it do?

My ISP has asked whether I want it turned off and if so then I need to send a cover letter why it should be turned off.

Thanks,

traker

duncanblair

248 posts

Master Geek

Trusted

#166460 23-Sep-2008 09:16

Hi guys,

Just wanted to confirm that yes, interleaving on is the default for new Orcon+ (LLU) connections, however we are more than happy to turn it off for you at your request. In some cases it may make your conneciton unstable, but we can pretty easily turn it back on if it does.

If you want to know more about interleaving I wrote quite a long explination here: http://www.orcon.net.nz/informme/task,load/service,blog/category,65/item,244/

Note that for connections that are on Telecom Wholesale infrastructure we still turn interleaving off by default.

jfnz

211 posts

Master Geek

Trusted

#166494 23-Sep-2008 12:29

traker:

Hi, I have seen this 'Interleaving' mentioned previously, what is it and what does it do?

My ISP has asked whether I want it turned off and if so then I need to send a cover letter why it should be turned off.

Thanks,

traker

Interleaving is a method of increasing a connection’s tolerance to noise interference on a customer’s line by reducing the amount of error correction required.

With no interleaving the error correction packet is sent immediately after the data packet. This is good for the speed of the data transfer but means that if some noise interference causes the data packet to be damaged then the error correction packet is likely to be damaged as well. This nullifies the point of having the error correction packet and results in a significantly higher number of data packets needing to be resent.

With interleaving the error correction packet for the data packet is sent a little bit later so that if the data packet is damaged the error correction packet may be able to do its job and repair it. This results in a decreased number of packets needing to be resent.

The advantage of interleaving is therefore obvious, so why is it that people complain about interleaving?

Interleaving causes an increase in latency (or ping time) due to the processing needed. This latency causes some issues for real-time applications such as online gaming and Voice Over Internet Protocol (VOIP).

duncanblair: Hi guys,

Just wanted to confirm that yes, interleaving on is the default for new Orcon+ (LLU) connections, however we are more than happy to turn it off for you at your request. In some cases it may make your conneciton unstable, but we can pretty easily turn it back on if it does.

If you want to know more about interleaving I wrote quite a long explination here: http://www.orcon.net.nz/informme/task,load/service,blog/category,65/item,244/

Note that for connections that are on Telecom Wholesale infrastructure we still turn interleaving off by default.

Duncan, thank you for your response.

Can I make a suggestion that you update your knowledge base [http://www.orcon.net.nz/help_me] with this information? I looked there before I posted here but didn't come across the URL you mentioned in your response.

Lurch

1061 posts

Uber Geek

#166529 23-Sep-2008 14:41

Just dropped an email off to the helpdesk to have mine switched off :-D I'm in no rush, but wil be interesting to see if it makes any difference when playing WoW.

jfnz

211 posts

Master Geek

Trusted

#166532 23-Sep-2008 14:53

Lurch: Just dropped an email off to the helpdesk to have mine switched off :-D I'm in no rush, but wil be interesting to see if it makes any difference when playing WoW.

Unfortunately, for international destinations (apart from Australia) it makes very little difference due to the fact that the international part of the trip for the packet takes longer than the time you save from having interleaving off.

For example here is a trace to us.logon.worldofwarcraft.com from my Xtra DSL connection w/o Interleaving

                                              My traceroute [v0.72] - Tue Sep 23 14:49:04 2008
                                                                                                                    Packets               Pings
Host                                                                                  Loss%   Snt   Last   Avg Best Wrst StDev
1. 192.168.0.1                                                                   0.0%   151    0.8   0.8   0.7   2.9   0.3
2. 219-89-54-1.dialup.xtra.co.nz                                          0.0%   151    7.7 12.9   7.1 166.4 18.1
3. ???
4. xe6-0-0-10.akbr5.global-gateway.net.nz                           0.0%   151    7.9   7.3   6.0 24.1   1.9
5. xe0-0-0-2.akbr4.global-gateway.net.nz                             9.3%   151    6.8   7.0   6.0 10.0   0.8
6. so-1-2-0.0-sjbr2.global-gateway.net.nz                             0.0%   150 158.6 159.1 157.8 177.6   1.8
7. so1-0-0.pabr4.global-gateway.net.nz                                0.0%   150 133.5 143.5 131.4 182.1 13.9
    so0-0-1.pabr4.global-gateway.net.nz
    so-0-0-0.pabr4.global-gateway.net.nz
8. 12.116.52.21                                                                 0.0%   150 133.7 133.3 131.6 136.8   0.8
9. tbr2.sffca.ip.att.net                                                         0.0%   150 140.2 140.6 138.0 288.3 12.2
10. cr2.sffca.ip.att.net                                                        0.0%   150 170.0 155.7 137.6 180.6 16.9
11. cr2.la2ca.ip.att.net                                                       0.0%   150 138.4 154.0 137.6 178.3 16.6
12. tbr2.la2ca.ip.att.net                                                      0.0%   150 170.3 171.2 169.7 175.9   1.1
13. 12.127.3.189                                                             0.0%   150 137.8 149.4 137.1 345.0 34.0
14. 12.122.255.74                                                             0.0%   150 169.7 177.8 169.3 378.2 27.5
15. mdf001c7613r0003-gig-10-1.lax1.attens.net                   0.0%   150 139.0 145.7 137.3 320.3 26.6
16. 12.129.209.74                                                             0.0%   150 139.6 139.3 138.0 157.6   1.8
17. 12.129.232.110                                                             0.0%   150 138.2 154.7 137.6 179.9 16.7

Compared to a national destination for comparisons sake:

                                                My traceroute [v0.72] - Tue Sep 23 14:51:23 2008
                                                                                                                    Packets               Pings
Host                                                                                  Loss%   Snt   Last   Avg Best Wrst StDev
1. 192.168.0.1                                                                    0.0%    12    0.8   0.8   0.8   0.8   0.0
2. 219-89-54-1.dialup.xtra.co.nz                                           0.0%    12    8.2   8.2   7.4   9.7   0.7
3. ???
4. 202.50.238.49                                                               0.0%    12    6.4   7.1   6.2   9.3   0.9
5. g1-0-0-4.akpr1.global-gateway.net.nz                                0.0%    12    7.2   8.5   6.6 17.4   3.0
6. g1-0-0-906.u11.telstraclear.net                                         0.0%    12    6.8   7.4   6.7   8.4   0.6
7. 218.101.61.42                                                                 0.0%    12   17.4 18.4 16.2 27.1   2.9
8. 203.167.209.100                                                             0.0%    12   15.4 16.2 14.9 17.8   0.9
9. rachel.paradise.net.nz                                                      0.0%    12   15.7 15.8 15.3 16.5   0.4

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traker

9 posts

Wannabe Geek

#166618 23-Sep-2008 20:13

Anarkist:
traker:

Hi, I have seen this 'Interleaving' mentioned previously, what is it and what does it do?

My ISP has asked whether I want it turned off and if so then I need to send a cover letter why it should be turned off.

Thanks,

traker

Interleaving is a method of increasing a connection’s tolerance to noise interference on a customer’s line by reducing the amount of error correction required.

With no interleaving the error correction packet is sent immediately after the data packet. This is good for the speed of the data transfer but means that if some noise interference causes the data packet to be damaged then the error correction packet is likely to be damaged as well. This nullifies the point of having the error correction packet and results in a significantly higher number of data packets needing to be resent.

With interleaving the error correction packet for the data packet is sent a little bit later so that if the data packet is damaged the error correction packet may be able to do its job and repair it. This results in a decreased number of packets needing to be resent.

The advantage of interleaving is therefore obvious, so why is it that people complain about interleaving?
Interleaving causes an increase in latency (or ping time) due to the processing needed. This latency causes some issues for real-time applications such as online gaming and Voice Over Internet Protocol (VOIP).

duncanblair: Hi guys,

Just wanted to confirm that yes, interleaving on is the default for new Orcon+ (LLU) connections, however we are more than happy to turn it off for you at your request. In some cases it may make your conneciton unstable, but we can pretty easily turn it back on if it does.

If you want to know more about interleaving I wrote quite a long explination here: http://www.orcon.net.nz/informme/task,load/service,blog/category,65/item,244/

Note that for connections that are on Telecom Wholesale infrastructure we still turn interleaving off by default.

Duncan, thank you for your response.

Can I make a suggestion that you update your knowledge base [http://www.orcon.net.nz/help_me] with this information? I looked there before I posted here but didn't come across the URL you mentioned in your response.

traker

9 posts

Wannabe Geek

#166619 23-Sep-2008 20:14

Thanks for your reply, now I understand what it does.

traker

rygrass

134 posts

Master Geek

#166633 23-Sep-2008 22:04

Well that's not entirely true as i have just moved onto the Pro advanced plan with Xtra and that has interleaving off ( good for gaming )

Since i changed over i have noticed ping differences everywhere not as big as NZ & Aussie severs but still at least 30-70 drop in the other international severs . But i did notice the Extra hops to most severs but its worth it. But does it also matter what sort of upload speed you get ? Or does it depend on what MTU setting you have as when i choose 1500 i get lower pings to the East coast or 1492 which is better all round ?