2degrees buys Orcon ...

Forums › 2degrees (including Slingshot, Orcon, Flip, Stuff Fibre, MyRepublic, 2talk and Vocus) › 2degrees buys Orcon ...

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Sounddude

I fix stuff!
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2degrees

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#1043381 14-May-2014 08:35

EDIT - Looks like Orcon have been busy putting gear in exchanges since I last looked at the list. I take that first comment back

We have had gear in exchanges for years and years.

Bee

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#1046372 16-May-2014 15:48

"Orcon is proudly Kiwi owned. Not a dollar goes to off shore investors, and we are committed to building Orcon into the country’s favourite ISP"

When this statement is removed from the Orcon Website then we will know the rumour here is true?

Doing your best is much more important than being the best.

ubergeeknz

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Vocus

#1046373 16-May-2014 15:49

Bee: "Orcon is proudly Kiwi owned. Not a dollar goes to off shore investors, and we are committed to building Orcon into the country’s favourite ISP"

When this statement is removed from the Orcon Website then we will know the rumour here is true?

I suspect there will be a press release, as there usually is with these things.

tripper1000

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#1051470 22-May-2014 23:48

NonprayingMantis: This says it all really:

http://billbennett.co.nz/2014/05/11/2degrees-orcon/

"If 2degrees couldn’t find the $22 million to buy the third chunk of 700 MHz spectrum, it can’t afford Orcon......"

There was a link published elsewhere in this forum to a NZHerald interview with the CEO of 2degrees, in which he explained that the extra 700MHz bandwidth would not increase revenue as much as $22million spent on capital infrastructure/network build. Therefore, for him, it wasn't that he couldn't afford to buy the spectrum, it was that he didn't want to buy the spectrum because he had more profitable investments to make.

Further more, he described the 1800MHz spectrum as "beach front property" and said that 2degrees was flush with that, so he was not overly concerned with 700Mhz spectrum. As I understand it, many more 4G handsets presently in production use 1800MHz than can use 700Mhz, further devaluing the 700MHz block telecom paid a premium for.

The two big telco's have a history or hoarding radio spectrum with out ever utilizing it, possibly/probably to prevent competition against themselves (eg Wimax specturm (yes that spectrum can now be used for 4G, but that is more of a happy accident than good planning)). The $83 million telecom paid for 700Mhz spectrum might be more of a reflection of what Telecom thinks the spectrum is worth to keep out of others hands, rather than what they think it it worth to make money off of. At the end of the day neither Vodafone nor 2degrees bid on the remaining 700Mhz block so with hindsight Telecom could have got it for the reserve price, and in reflection, paid far too much for it. There was/is no other player interested in the spectrum so Telecom couldn't sell it for anything close to what they paid for it, therefore they can't reap a 270% return on it any time soon.

Since 2degrees spends money to make money, if 2degrees sees a profitable purpose for Orcon they might choose to afford it.

NonprayingMantis

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#1051471 22-May-2014 23:58

tripper1000:
NonprayingMantis: This says it all really:

http://billbennett.co.nz/2014/05/11/2degrees-orcon/

"If 2degrees couldn’t find the $22 million to buy the third chunk of 700 MHz spectrum, it can’t afford Orcon......"

There was a link published elsewhere in this forum to a NZHerald interview with the CEO of 2degrees, in which he explained that the extra 700MHz bandwidth would not increase revenue as much as $22million spent on capital infrastructure/network build. Therefore, for him, it wasn't that he couldn't afford to buy the spectrum, it was that he didn't want to buy the spectrum because he had more profitable investments to make.

Further more, he described the 1800MHz spectrum as "beach front property" and said that 2degrees was flush with that, so he was not overly concerned with 700Mhz spectrum. As I understand it, many more 4G handsets presently in production use 1800MHz than can use 700Mhz, further devaluing the 700MHz block telecom paid a premium for.

The two big telco's have a history or hoarding radio spectrum with out ever utilizing it, possibly/probably to prevent competition against themselves (eg Wimax specturm (yes that spectrum can now be used for 4G, but that is more of a happy accident than good planning)). The $83 million telecom paid for 700Mhz spectrum might be more of a reflection of what Telecom thinks the spectrum is worth to keep out of others hands, rather than what they think it it worth to make money off of. At the end of the day neither Vodafone nor 2degrees bid on the remaining 700Mhz block so with hindsight Telecom could have got it for the reserve price, and in reflection, paid far too much for it. There was/is no other player interested in the spectrum so Telecom couldn't sell it for anything close to what they paid for it, therefore they can't reap a 270% return on it any time soon.

Since 2degrees spends money to make money, if 2degrees sees a profitable purpose for Orcon they might choose to afford it.

whut? the reason it went up to $83m was precisely because VF was bidding on it.

sbiddle

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#1051506 23-May-2014 07:33

tripper1000: (eg Wimax specturm (yes that spectrum can now be used for 4G, but that is more of a happy accident than good planning)).

3.5Ghz WiMAX spectrum in NZ isn't particularly good for LTE.

Yes there have been LTE trials on 3.5Ghz but it's getting so high it's a band you'd only want to use for fixed broadband, not mobile. NZ licence requirements also only allow FDD in that band whereas LTE trials overseas have focused on FDD.

There is also a small problem with the spectrum blocks - if you've got 7Mhz of spectrum you're not going to be able to do a lot running a single 5Mhz carrier.

What is relevant however is the 2.3Ghz band that Woosh (among others own). Right now I'd value Woosh's 2.3Ghz spectrum as being worth significantly more than what Woosh are worth.

eXDee

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#1054670 27-May-2014 23:26

tripper1000:
NonprayingMantis: This says it all really:

http://billbennett.co.nz/2014/05/11/2degrees-orcon/

"If 2degrees couldn’t find the $22 million to buy the third chunk of 700 MHz spectrum, it can’t afford Orcon......"

There was a link published elsewhere in this forum to a NZHerald interview with the CEO of 2degrees, in which he explained that the extra 700MHz bandwidth would not increase revenue as much as $22million spent on capital infrastructure/network build. Therefore, for him, it wasn't that he couldn't afford to buy the spectrum, it was that he didn't want to buy the spectrum because he had more profitable investments to make.

Further more, he described the 1800MHz spectrum as "beach front property" and said that 2degrees was flush with that, so he was not overly concerned with 700Mhz spectrum. As I understand it, many more 4G handsets presently in production use 1800MHz than can use 700Mhz, further devaluing the 700MHz block telecom paid a premium for.

The two big telco's have a history or hoarding radio spectrum with out ever utilizing it, possibly/probably to prevent competition against themselves (eg Wimax specturm (yes that spectrum can now be used for 4G, but that is more of a happy accident than good planning)). The $83 million telecom paid for 700Mhz spectrum might be more of a reflection of what Telecom thinks the spectrum is worth to keep out of others hands, rather than what they think it it worth to make money off of. At the end of the day neither Vodafone nor 2degrees bid on the remaining 700Mhz block so with hindsight Telecom could have got it for the reserve price, and in reflection, paid far too much for it. There was/is no other player interested in the spectrum so Telecom couldn't sell it for anything close to what they paid for it, therefore they can't reap a 270% return on it any time soon.

Since 2degrees spends money to make money, if 2degrees sees a profitable purpose for Orcon they might choose to afford it.

The 700mhz spectrum imo is more valuable than this suggests.
1800mhz 4G is like your 2100mhz 3G, it covers your main populations. 700mhz 4G is going to fill all the other gaps, just like 850/900mhz 3G does.

The 700mhz APT band is going to become very very common and popular in the future. There are a lot of countries that will deploy it over the coming years, and a lot of handsets that will support it.

2Degrees does have bandwidth in this band plan, the question is will they be put at a disadvantage speed and capacity wise by having less than the competition, or will telecom be at a significant advantage?

Also why has this thread title still not been changed?

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