Fair use policy - has this changed recently?

Forums › 2degrees (including Slingshot, Orcon, Flip, Stuff Fibre, MyRepublic, 2talk and Vocus) › Fair use policy - has this changed recently?

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sbiddle

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#1578784 23-Jun-2016 07:46

dolsen:
sbiddle: That sort of usage is well in excess of normal and would be flagged as probable CTU use which is prohibited.

What's CTU use?

Cellular trunking unit. Lots of people hook them up to their PBX's to make outbound calls to mobiles and find they get pinged by the mobile networks for doing this because it breaches the terms and conditions for all 3 networks.

It's also incredibly easy to identify CTU use based on the IMSI.

I assume the OP is infact using a phone and not a CTU?

timmmay

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#1578797 23-Jun-2016 08:10

@2degreesCare is notably absent from this thread. IMHO unlimited should mean unlimited, and if it's not unlimited it should be called (for example) the thousand minute plan.

MikeB4

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#1578808 23-Jun-2016 08:42

The fair use policies are vague and covert. It's like NZTA opening a new motorway and saying there is a limit on how many times you can use it, we are not going to tell you that limit but we will stop you using it if you pass that limit.

The Telcos need to be more open with the limits, they clearly know the limits so be up front and tell their customers.

jscriv

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#1578811 23-Jun-2016 08:52

I'm definitely not using a CTU (I now know what this is though, so thanks for the explanation).

ArcticSilver

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#1578853 23-Jun-2016 10:00

The problem here, simply comes back to no defined limit. Jeremy is being mislead. I would argue the plan is not fit for purpose.

I think the more interesting question is (provided he follows their text) - What is Jeremy suppose to do now? How does he find a higher use plan? What's higher than unlimited?

I'm a business user and I would at times rival Jeremy. I get texts each month checking that I'm a real person. If I got one of these texts I wouldn't know what to do. If there was a defined limit I would go to a higher plan, but apparently that does not exist, anymore.

As a business owner I have services which fall under the unlimited category and some clients are not big money makers as they use far more than others, but we work on averages. If we weren't prepared to take the hit on the higher users we wouldn't of done a unlimited plan!

andrew027

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#1578861 23-Jun-2016 10:14

Lias: http://www.comcom.govt.nz/fair-trading/fair-trading-act-fact-sheets/fine-print/

This page @Lias linkded to contains the following sentences:

ComCom: Fine print should not be used to conceal important information which would be critical to a person's decision to buy goods or services. If the overall impression given by an advertisement is misleading, it will breach the Fair Trading Act no matter what information is provided in fine print...

Stating that 'special conditions apply' will not protect a business when the conditions are unusual, inconsistent with, or modify, in an unexpected manner, the main message. Fine print can elaborate on the main selling message, but not contradict it.

That seems to make it clear that if you were sold a plan on the basis that it included unlimited calls, the fine print can't contradict that message and limit the number or duration of calls you make. To do so means the way the plan was sold to you was misleading and breaches the Act.

In 2degrees' defence, the information is pretty easy to find on their website:

2degrees: Your use of the Services must be fair, reasonable and not excessive, as reasonably determined by us by reference to average and/or estimated typical customer usage of the Services. We will consider your usage to be excessive and unreasonable where it materially exceeds the average and/or estimated use patterns over any day, week or month (or other period of time as determined by us).

The problem is that your use shouldn't be measured against other customers, whose needs may be very different to yours. These days most people probably sign up to an unlimited plan to get more data but they don't make many calls. You might have signed up for the minutes. You only have to be making <14 minutes of calls per day to exceed 2degrees' largest timed plan (400 minutes). If you know you're going to be making 15 minutes of calls per day, or 30, or 60 or 120, then you choose an "unlimted" plan - isn't that why they exist? It's certainly not your fault if everybody is using less.

MikeAqua

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#1578864 23-Jun-2016 10:19

Seems misleading to sell something as unlimited when there are undisclosed limits.

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nigelj

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#1579134 23-Jun-2016 17:56

sbiddle:

jscriv:

Just got my bill - last month was a figure between 4000 and 4500 minutes.

Your usage is vastly in excess of average high use mobile usage across every mobile network. It's also worth noting that all 3 networks have terms and conditions about their "unlimited" usage. People in this thread picking on 2d should be aware of this, because you would find yourself in this situation no matter what network you were on.

I know that amount of usage would get flagged on Spark and you'd be told to cut it back or be disconnected. No idea about VF, but I would assume they would be similar. That sort of usage is well in excess of normal and would be flagged as probable CTU use which is prohibited.

You do make a good point, in fact the easiest argument to make is thus...

At 4500 minutes, charged at the 2014 MTR (http://www.comcom.govt.nz/dmsdocument/7904 - page 6), assuming everything was off-net, 2degrees would've had to fork out $160.20 on what is a $50, $60 or $80 plan.

My 'picking' is on the general unfairness with the word Unlimited, similar how I've picked on companies that advertise with the term "FREE*", with a large wad of fine print to change the definition of free. This isn't too different to hosting/storage companies claiming "Unlimited storage", there is a limit somewhere, if you are going to start enforcing at a certain level, sell the plan at that level. Unlimited is a nasty term that shouldn't be used unless it's meant.

(Edit: Didn't notice the $50 plan was also Unlimited)

Aredwood

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#1580280 25-Jun-2016 18:48

Another factor - are you normally directly connected to the 2d network or are you often roaming to the Vodafone network? And what type of numbers are you mostly calling? Spark, Vodafone, Landlines, Or other 2d numbers? As those things would change how much your usage would be costing 2d. And could also explain why they are only just now asking you to reduce your usage.

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