So much for zero-rated Steam

Forums › 2degrees (including Slingshot, Orcon, Flip, Stuff Fibre, MyRepublic, 2talk and Vocus) › So much for zero-rated Steam

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6434 posts

Uber Geek

#657836 18-Jul-2012 17:09

Personal opinion, and I am not a lawyer, I would say that you have 3 options:

a) Remove the unmetering capability it altogether (which would be a shame)

b) Unmeter ALL steam content even if not served from your server (presumably very expensive, not even sure if it would be possible)

c) Just be really clear right upfront on ALL your communications and adverts (not just within the FAQs) about Steam that there is a strong possibility that the content downloaded will NOT be unmetered and that neither you nor the customer can control it.
Don't expect people to look at FAQs, small print, or notes for details since this is a fundamental limitation of the offer.

Instead, state it right upfront in the same place you talk about unmetering. It makes the 'message' weaker, but it also makes it accurate.

The banner said nothing about any FAQs at all, and other places simply ask you to read an FAQ but don?t state the issue upfront

This page doesn't mention the risk upfront http://games.orcon.net.nz/index.php?page=steam it just says to read an FAQ.

This page doesn?t mention the risk upfront http://www.orcon.net.nz/support/gfaq_page/which_sites_are_included_in_the_o_zone/ it just says to please read a note.

Skolink

1081 posts

Uber Geek

#657837 18-Jul-2012 17:10

Dear TelstraClear, if you are reading this thread, please don't turn off or un-zero-rate your Steam Server. Also, please hide it from Vodafone.

1080p

1332 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#657839 18-Jul-2012 17:13

Well, not much left to be said here. Some whiny Orcon staff apparently don't like taking constructive criticism on an issue that should obviously already be an identified problem (read: Commerce Commission interest) and instead spit the dummy and attack their customers :|

Kyanar

4089 posts

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#657841 18-Jul-2012 17:15

Satire: Absolutely unacceptable. You managed to read half a two line advertisement, change the meaning so it suited you then claim the FAQ (Which I recall reading a good year and a bit ago, and it contained the right info then) changes 'weekly' so how could you have known about the different steam servers that your computer would use automagically??!?

THEN you tried to act all high and mighty, invoking the name of the all powerful commerce commission in the hope of forcing these evil Orcon guys to do the unpossible and make all the internets free for you. (OK, maybe just put in a bunch of stupidly expensive DPI boxes or something at a few hundy thousands cost and zero rate it for no perceivable business case just because you are unable to Internet)

Yep, that was highly unacceptable, and now you are wondering why the easier option for them is to simply turn off a free service they were giving you ?

Are you people being intentionally obtuse?

Point 1: At no point did I mention the commerce commission. Someone else did, but I can't see how that would be necessary - it's an easy fix. One which, might I add, they actually went ahead and fixed. Point 2: At no point did I say they need to make the internet free. That's not even slightly rational - maybe one day that will be possible but right now that would be commercial suicide. Point 3: The easier option isn't to turn it off, it's to clarify the two line advertisement so that people don't think there's a guarantee they won't be charged - which they did. Point 4: I don't need to change the meaning of "zero rated for Orcon customers". It already says all it needs to. The FAQ is irrelevant, because nothing tells you that you need to read it, Also, hyperbole. Look it up.

Kyanar

4089 posts

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#657843 18-Jul-2012 17:16

1080p: Well, not much left to be said here. Some whiny Orcon staff apparently don't like taking constructive criticism on an issue that should obviously already be an identified problem (read: Commerce Commission interest) and instead spit the dummy and attack their customers :|

Woah there. Quentin is being quite polite and rational about the whole thing. It is a pity that his was not the first response to come in here.

Nebbie

458 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

#657847 18-Jul-2012 17:20

Have you actually called Orcon about this or are you one of these people thinks that they must make all of their personal issues public..... You seem to be out number with people thinking your moaning for the sake of moaning......

---------------------------------------------------------------
Nebukadnessar

Satire

27 posts

Geek

#657852 18-Jul-2012 17:22

NonprayingMantis: Personal opinion, and I am not a lawyer, I would say that you have 3 options:

a) Remove the unmetering capability it altogether (which would be a shame)
b) Unmeter ALL steam content even if not served from your server (presumably very expensive, not even sure if it would be possible)
c) Just be really clear right upfront on ALL your communications and adverts (not just within the FAQs) about Steam that there is a strong possibility that the content downloaded will NOT be unmetered and that neither you nor the customer can control it. Don?t ask people to look at FAQs, small print, or notes for details since this is a fundamental limitation of the offer. Instead, state it right upfront in the same place you talk about unmetering. It makes the ?message? weaker, but it also makes it accurate.

The banner said nothing about any FAQs at all, and other places simply ask you to read an FAQ but don?t state the issue upfront

This page doesn?t mention the risk upfront http://games.orcon.net.nz/index.php?page=steam it just says to read an FAQ.

This page doesn?t mention the risk upfront http://www.orcon.net.nz/support/gfaq_page/which_sites_are_included_in_the_o_zone/ it just says to please read a note.

The banner said

"downloads.orcon.net.nz zero rated for Orcon customers"

Now this is crazy
And I just met you
But if I browse to http://games.orcon.net.nz/index.php?page=files
Could it be free for Orcon users maybe ?

I guess kids these days inability to actually parse English may have something to do with it, or short attention spans that only read half sentences, but seriously.. ? I really don't see the ambiguity.

As for being upfront, what part of "Please read the FAQ" is hard to understand, especially when the line before this talks about the free usage. "Free usage, please read the Frequently asked Questions for more information !"

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detonate

45 posts

Geek

#657855 18-Jul-2012 17:23

Preeeeeeeeettttttty sure I didn't attack anyone, nor did I say I represented Orcon.

I just said that the likely outcome is that it'll get turned off.

I do admit that I was wrong though, TCL's Steam server is open to the internets as well.

Kyanar

4089 posts

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#657863 18-Jul-2012 17:28

detonate: Preeeeeeeeettttttty sure I didn't attack anyone, nor did I say I represented Orcon.

I just said that the likely outcome is that it'll get turned off.

I do admit that I was wrong though, TCL's Steam server is open to the internets as well.

Let's just both admit we were a little heated and let it go at that shall we? It seems apart from the extra folks who are just piling it on we've got to the point where we're actually coming to a constructive solution now.

Satire

27 posts

Geek

#657868 18-Jul-2012 17:34

Kyanar:
Point 1: At no point did I mention the commerce commission. Someone else did, but I can't see how that would be necessary - it's an easy fix. One which, might I add, they actually went ahead and fixed.

Sorry, It all gets mixed up and you all start looking the same after a while. You were the guy that killed the steam content server right ? ranked right up there with the guy that killed 'no charges for overage on DSL' back in the day.

Hi.

Point 2: At no point did I say they need to make the internet free. That's not even slightly rational - maybe one day that will be possible but right now that would be commercial suicide.

Actually, you are suggesting they put in place something that would in essence, only be workable if you made the internet free, so - yes, you are actually. (Or would cost more than a reasonable sized house - which doesn't seem to make much sense to pacify customers that are incapable of reading)

Point 3: The easier option isn't to turn it off, it's to clarify the two line advertisement so that people don't think there's a guarantee they won't be charged - which they did.

Actually, Pretty sure turning it off involves wandering into the server room (or reaching under the desk, which is possibly more likely) and pressing the 'off' button.

Trying to get people to read takes a whole lot more effort.

Point 4: I don't need to change the meaning of "zero rated for Orcon customers". It already says all it needs to. The FAQ is irrelevant, because nothing tells you that you need to read it, Also, hyperbole. Look it up.

See, the problem isn't the words "zero rated for Orcon customers" but the bits that go around it to make it a complete sentence.

Consider the following;

"Not zero rated for Orcon customers"
"Almost zero rated for Orcon customers"
"downloads between 7am and 5pm zero rated for Orcon customers"
"steam zero rated for Orcon customers"
"www.orcon.net.nz zero rated for Orcon customers"
"forums.orcon.net.nz zero rated for Orcon customers"
"games.orcon.net.nz zero rated for Orcon customers"

Do you see how the addition of other words changes things up ? English, and some might say, Language in general is kinda cool like that.

detonate

45 posts

Geek

#657873 18-Jul-2012 17:39

I still think the original banner was fine.
The website, games.orcon.net.nz (in fact EVERYTHING inside the subnet that the Games Zones sits on, is zero rated)

The banner did not say "ALL STEAM TRAFFIC IS FREE". Nor did Orcon state as much.

But, it's been updated anyway, so yay.

NonprayingMantis

6434 posts

Uber Geek

#657878 18-Jul-2012 17:43

Satire:
NonprayingMantis: Personal opinion, and I am not a lawyer, I would say that you have 3 options:

a) Remove the unmetering capability it altogether (which would be a shame)
b) Unmeter ALL steam content even if not served from your server (presumably very expensive, not even sure if it would be possible)
c) Just be really clear right upfront on ALL your communications and adverts (not just within the FAQs) about Steam that there is a strong possibility that the content downloaded will NOT be unmetered and that neither you nor the customer can control it. Don?t ask people to look at FAQs, small print, or notes for details since this is a fundamental limitation of the offer. Instead, state it right upfront in the same place you talk about unmetering. It makes the ?message? weaker, but it also makes it accurate.

The banner said nothing about any FAQs at all, and other places simply ask you to read an FAQ but don?t state the issue upfront

This page doesn?t mention the risk upfront http://games.orcon.net.nz/index.php?page=steam it just says to read an FAQ.

This page doesn?t mention the risk upfront http://www.orcon.net.nz/support/gfaq_page/which_sites_are_included_in_the_o_zone/ it just says to please read a note.

The banner said

"downloads.orcon.net.nz zero rated for Orcon customers"

Now this is crazy
And I just met you
But if I browse to http://games.orcon.net.nz/index.php?page=files
Could it be free for Orcon users maybe ?

I guess kids these days inability to actually parse English may have something to do with it, or short attention spans that only read half sentences, but seriously.. ? I really don't see the ambiguity.

As for being upfront, what part of "Please read the FAQ" is hard to understand, especially when the line before this talks about the free usage. "Free usage, please read the Frequently asked Questions for more information !"

actually it said:

"content hosting provided by downloads.orcon.net.nz zero rated for Orcon customers"

conent hosted by company x and zero rated for orcon customers means to any reasonable person, that the content they are currently downloading is zero rated for orcon customers, which wasn't true.

the banner could have said:

usually zero rated for orcon customer please read FAQ for more details
sometimes zero rated for orcon customer please read FAQ for more details
mostly zero rated for orcon customer please read FAQ for more details

it didn't.

Now this is crazy
And I just met you
But if I see a banner that says the content was hosted by orcon and free to orcon customers
then woulnd;t it be reasonable to expect that to be true maybe

Simply putting something in an FAQ doesn’t absolve you of the need to be clear about communicating it if it forms a fundamental part/limitation of the offer. IMO this is a crucial limitation of the whole 'steam is unmetered' and needs to be stated upfront.

Kyanar

4089 posts

Uber Geek

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#657881 18-Jul-2012 17:46

detonate:
I still think the original banner was fine.
The website, games.orcon.net.nz (in fact EVERYTHING inside the subnet that the Games Zones sits on, is zero rated)

The banner did not say "ALL STEAM TRAFFIC IS FREE". Nor did Orcon state as much.

But, it's been updated anyway, so yay.

Now now, don't whip out the McDonalds case - there's a whole story around that and McDonalds seem like major douches if you read the whole thing

.

Suffice it to say, we're probably not going to agree on whether the banner was clear about exactly what is zero-rated. But it's all good now, so who cares.

NonprayingMantis:
Now this is crazy
And I just met you
But if I see a banner that says the content was hosted by orcon and free to orcon customers
then woulnd;t it be reasonable to expect that to be true maybe

I know the song, but is this a new meme I wasn't aware of?

Satire

27 posts

Geek

#657883 18-Jul-2012 17:47

actually it said:

"content hosting provided by downloads.orcon.net.nz zero rated for Orcon customers"

conent hosted by company x and zero rated for orcon customers means to any reasonable person, that the content they are currently downloading is zero rated for orcon customers, which wasn't true.

the banner could have said:

usually zero rated for orcon customer please read FAQ for more details
sometimes zero rated for orcon customer please read FAQ for more details
mostly zero rated for orcon customer please read FAQ for more details

it didn't.

Now this is crazy
And I just met you
But if I see a banner that says the content was hosted by orcon and free to orcon customers
then woulnd;t it be reasonable to expect that to be true maybe

I'm glad I already answered this earlier and don't need to reply to this post at all !

It's almost as if my name if John Titor !

fobski

12 posts

Geek

#657887 18-Jul-2012 17:49

but its steam...

and how do you know you are downloading from games.orcon.net.nz

you don't

therefore

assume unzerorated

IMO

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