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Forums › 2degrees (including Slingshot, Orcon, Flip, Stuff Fibre, MyRepublic, 2talk and Vocus) › Slingshot Naked DSL

peteremcc

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#18103 27-Dec-2007 21:32

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According to their website they are now offering Naked DSL.

Am thinking about signing my mum up for it - is anyone here using it already?

Also, what happens with wire maintenance fees - I can't find anything on the SS website about it.

Thanks.

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sbiddle

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#101947 27-Dec-2007 21:38

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peteremcc:
According to their website they are now offering Naked DSL.
Am thinking about signing my mum up for it - is anyone here using it already?
Also, what happens with wire maintenance fees - I can't find anything on the SS website about it.

Thanks.

It would surprise me if any ISP's offering Naked DSL would offer a wiring maintenance plan at all. If people are going to hack at their home wiring to install ATA's there are simply far too many things that could go wrong.

peteremcc

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#101955 27-Dec-2007 22:07

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Sorry, you'll have to explain a bit more for me - whats an ATA?

hellonearthisman

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#101981 28-Dec-2007 01:42

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I asked about this question on the slingshot forum, I was told that there is no wiring or maintenance fees on NakedDSL connections.

Slingshot forum Quote: Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:00 pm

hellonearthisman wrote:

ScottH wrote:

With Slingshot you'll get,

FS/FS broadband
6GB
Voiceline (with heaps of free features)
Softphone
Free number porting (you get to keep your existing number)

All for $79.95 per month.

Does Slingshots nakeddsl include my line wiring and maintenance?

you dont need it!
_________________
Scott Hoogerbrug
Marketing
www.slingshot.co.nz

cokemaster

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#101991 28-Dec-2007 07:49

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My answer is based on the above statement copied from hellonearthisman - I don't see how they can make that statement. With Naked DSL, your wiring is still going to be used, its just its not going to carry voice signal. Not having voice service doesn't mean your internal wiring is any more reliable (just that you'll realistically only need one jackpoint unless you move it around).

Without the wiring maintance service, you'll be charged for any faults that occur within your household, ie. cabling, jackpoints etc. This can be expensive if you get a tech to visit and it turns out to be internal house wiring. It will probably result in a few complaints here on geekzone.

Edit: Though the comment from Steve about people modifying the Telephone cabling rings true - you can do a lot of damage if you don't know what you are doing. Without a dial tone on the line its not immediately obvious that the line is working unless you check your DSL status (ie. do you have DSL, is the line quality indicators lower than before etc).

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sbiddle

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#101993 28-Dec-2007 07:59

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Slingshot are very naive to say that. Wiring maintenance is still as important as ever.

The issue here is that wiring maintenance has always been a voice product and in reality is nothing more than a cheap insurance policy against faults that doesn't actually cover it's own costs anyway (ie is cross subsidised). Because you're no longer getting a voice service from Telecom with your Naked DSL line then you can't pay Telecom this money and I doubt any ISP's offering a naked DSL will go down the path of offering a wiring maintenance charge either. Why? Because Telecom are under no obligation to offer this to ISP's who take up the offer of Naked DSL circuits and any ISP who offers such a service is going to have to rely on a 3rd party to make repairs and will never be able to recover those costs.

It's very much one of the catches of switching away from Telecom completely. You have to weight up the risks of the cost to repair a simple fault should it occur vs the status quo of maintaining the voice component from Telecom.

The quality of work in many houses is appauling now and IMHO a quite a lot of the issues people face with ADSL problems could be tracked back to dodgy internal wiring from over eager DIY handy people who read the instructions on the back of a jackpoint box and believe they're an expert.

kinsten

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#102014 28-Dec-2007 11:03

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In reality any Naked DSL supplier should start charging Wire Maintenence now, so that if they actually need to go down that path, they have already accumulated some of the revenue to pay for 3rd party maintenence people.

Besides Telecom only use accredited Telecom installers/maintainers. I was under the impression they started steering away from their own technical fleet a few years back?

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sbiddle

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#102017 28-Dec-2007 11:24

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kinsten: In reality any Naked DSL supplier should start charging Wire Maintenence now, so that if they actually need to go down that path, they have already accumulated some of the revenue to pay for 3rd party maintenence people.

Besides Telecom only use accredited Telecom installers/maintainers. I was under the impression they started steering away from their own technical fleet a few years back?

But the cost of providing wiring maintenance is unlikely to cover costs unless it was hiked up substancially. I know Fair Go has knocked Telecom numerous times in the past over wiring maintenance charges but in reality Telecom still claim that the amount they collect doesn't cover costs. An ISP reselling Naked ADSL and charging a few dollars per month for wiring maintenance isn't going to be able to cover costs when a typical service call could easily cost ~$100 to fix up a few jackpoints.

IMHO calling in a 3rd party service person and paying for repairs is just something that people have to factor in if they choose to go down the Naked ADSL path.

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rscole86

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#102020 28-Dec-2007 11:32

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In reality, how many people are going to need wiring maintenance? I have never needed, nor was it ever needed when I was still living at home.

Sbiddle is quite right in saying that most people will only have problems when either someone does a DIY add-on job. Or when it was installed by a DIY guy. So although YOU may not have done anything, who is to say what stupid things the last home owner may have done, or his 'mate'.

The only time that ISP's and Telco's should be providing Wiring insurance, is if they did the install themselves, or if the install was done by an accredited installer.

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#102023 28-Dec-2007 11:40

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It might not be used much, but think about it. When I've been down the tech visit path - I was told that it would cost $81 if the tech identified that it was a CPE issue/internal wiring issue (if I didn't have the wiring maintance insurance) when I had my broadband connection issue at my old premises, and that it would be more to fix any jackpoints/wiring.

If you have a very simple set up - its probably fairly straight forward but as soon as you have more complex set ups, such as multiple jackpoints etc, if anything goes funky in the household - the $2 or so dollars looks quite small compared to the costs involved with having a tech come out and bill you for it.

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peteremcc

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#102069 28-Dec-2007 15:20

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What sort of cost is it likely to be to fix a problem.
Obviously that will depend on what problems it is but i'm just interested in an average sort of cost.

It's not just the $2-$3 wire maintenance each month that would be saved but also the fact that it is cheaper than telecom overall.

If it's just the $81 that cokemaster mentioned then thats fine, even a couple hundred would probably be alright.
You'd have to be very unlucky for it to happen more than a couple of times while you're living at a house.

alvstar2001

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#102070 28-Dec-2007 15:31

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well anyone living in a house older than 20years old, i would suggest maintenance contract.
$81 is the call out fee only, it would cost something like $70 hour for the labour (takes 30-60mins to fix) plus materials
what sucks is that, if the wiring was installed by another party, and not up to telecom standard, and your paying maintanance insurance, than you'll still got to pay the call out fee plus labour and material, than your gonna end up having a dispute with the tech who installed your jackpoints etc etc.. *headache*

than again, its unlikely cause to any dsl fault is found in the internal wiring.
maintainance only good for rental line, cause it sh*ts out all the time.. (personal experience) and while my line is down, my dsl connection is fine..

so pointless with naked dsl..

alvstar2001

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#102075 28-Dec-2007 16:10

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It comes down to judgement - I have wiring maintance mainly because I don't really want to be hit with a bill if I have PSTN or DSL issues. I see it as a safety net.

However, others may decide to take the path of not having it (or are forced to due to it not being offered). Just because you aren't running POTS over the landline doesn't mean that internal wiring is no longer an issue if it breaks or is damaged. At the end of the day its their choice (or not, in the case of NDSL?).

As a sidenote, the swear filter is there for a purpose, alvstar2001. It is not to be evaded. Consider this a warning.

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kinsten

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#102086 28-Dec-2007 17:21

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Yes, out of all the places I have lived with DSL (all 5 households) we never once had to call on wire maintenence, except for initial setup which cost us anyway.

With the low possibility of actually maintaining someone elses botch-ups (don't rent the movie BOTCH) the small fee of $2 or even $5 multiplied by the number of Naked DSL users may not cover complete costs, but poses a healthy safety net for their consumers which will only be smiled at (if only sometimes someone complains about it) but will certainly take the sting out of it for both parties.

Perhaps someone should setup an Electrical Maintenece & Repair Insurance Fund or some such thing, which people can invest a small fee into, with an initial $60 appraisal fee to check their current wireing setup. Then when things go wrong they could call the EMRIF and get them to sort the problem out. This kind of company could become very popular if Users & ISPs partaking in Naked DSL do not want to fork the full costs for line maintenence.

But yes, personally I would just pay for someone to fix my lines up myself (knowing people in the professional field helps) as this is usually less hassle & no back n forth type oprations like I have experienced with *ahem* Telecom once in the past.
Edit: This situation was not for myself, but someone else I was helping out at the time.

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#102092 28-Dec-2007 17:34

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I think the safest way to avoid potential issues here is get a fresh professionally installed cable from the demarcation point to a single new jack-point at the placement of your router. This makes your N-DSL connection very simple and should be problem free for years to come. At the same time, you would have your existing cable at the demarcation point disconnected from the Telecom network, which would then enable you to back wire your VoIP line into you existing jack-points.

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sbiddle

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#102116 28-Dec-2007 19:28

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coffeebaron: I think the safest way to avoid potential issues here is get a fresh professionally installed cable from the demarcation point to a single new jack-point at the placement of your router. This makes your N-DSL connection very simple and should be problem free for years to come. At the same time, you would have your existing cable at the demarcation point disconnected from the Telecom network, which would then enable you to back wire your VoIP line into you existing jack-points.

I would also suggest to anybody building a new house or planning on major renovations to install a structured cabling solution. Cutting cat5 cable around your house is dirt cheap (providing you don't use cowboys who will rip you off) and in a few years time you'll be thanking yourself for doing so.

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