Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.




250 posts

Master Geek

Trusted

# 18103 27-Dec-2007 21:32
Send private message

According to their website they are now offering Naked DSL.

Am thinking about signing my mum up for it - is anyone here using it already?

Also, what happens with wire maintenance fees - I can't find anything on the SS website about it.


Thanks.


View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
 1 | 2
27876 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 7371

Moderator
Trusted
Biddle Corp
Lifetime subscriber

  # 101947 27-Dec-2007 21:38
Send private message

peteremcc:

According to their website they are now offering Naked DSL.

Am thinking about signing my mum up for it - is anyone here using it already?

Also, what happens with wire maintenance fees - I can't find anything on the SS website about it.


Thanks.



It would surprise me if any ISP's offering Naked DSL would offer a wiring maintenance plan at all. If people are going to hack at their home wiring to install ATA's there are simply far too many things that could go wrong.



250 posts

Master Geek

Trusted

  # 101955 27-Dec-2007 22:07
Send private message

Sorry, you'll have to explain a bit more for me - whats an ATA?

 
 
 
 


1819 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 52

Trusted

  # 101981 28-Dec-2007 01:42
Send private message

I asked about this question on the slingshot forum, I was told that there is no wiring or maintenance fees on NakedDSL connections.

Slingshot forum Quote: Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:00 pm


hellonearthisman wrote:
ScottH wrote:
With Slingshot you'll get,

FS/FS broadband
6GB
Voiceline (with heaps of free features)
Softphone
Free number porting (you get to keep your existing number)

All for $79.95 per month.


Does Slingshots nakeddsl include my line wiring and maintenance?


you dont need it!
_________________
Scott Hoogerbrug
Marketing
www.slingshot.co.nz

Nate wants an iphone
3906 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 33

Mod Emeritus
Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  # 101991 28-Dec-2007 07:49
Send private message

My answer is based on the above statement copied from hellonearthisman - I don't see how they can make that statement. With Naked DSL, your wiring is still going to be used, its just its not going to carry voice signal. Not having voice service doesn't mean your internal wiring is any more reliable (just that you'll realistically only need one jackpoint unless you move it around).

Without the wiring maintance service, you'll be charged for any faults that occur within your household, ie. cabling, jackpoints etc. This can be expensive if you get a tech to visit and it turns out to be internal house wiring. It will probably result in a few complaints here on geekzone.

Edit: Though the comment from Steve about people modifying the Telephone cabling rings true - you can do a lot of damage if you don't know what you are doing. Without a dial tone on the line its not immediately obvious that the line is working unless you check your DSL status (ie. do you have DSL, is the line quality indicators lower than before etc).




webhosting |New Zealand connectionsgeekzone IRC chat
Loose lips may sink ships - Be smart - Don't post internal/commercially sensitive or confidential information!


27876 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 7371

Moderator
Trusted
Biddle Corp
Lifetime subscriber

  # 101993 28-Dec-2007 07:59
Send private message

Slingshot are very naive to say that. Wiring maintenance is still as important as ever.

The issue here is that wiring maintenance has always been a voice product and in reality is nothing more than a cheap insurance policy against faults that doesn't actually cover it's own costs anyway (ie is cross subsidised). Because you're no longer getting a voice service from Telecom with your Naked DSL line then you can't pay Telecom this money and I doubt any ISP's offering a naked DSL will go down the path of offering a wiring maintenance charge either. Why? Because Telecom are under no obligation to offer this to ISP's who take up the offer of Naked DSL circuits and any ISP who offers such a service is going to have to rely on a 3rd party to make repairs and will never be able to recover those costs.

It's very much one of the catches of switching away from Telecom completely. You have to weight up the risks of the cost to repair a simple fault should it occur vs the status quo of maintaining the voice component from Telecom.

The quality of work in many houses is appauling now and IMHO a quite a lot of the issues people face with ADSL problems could be tracked back to dodgy internal wiring from over eager DIY handy people who read the instructions on the back of a jackpoint box and believe they're an expert.




240 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 8


  # 102014 28-Dec-2007 11:03
Send private message

In reality any Naked DSL supplier should start charging Wire Maintenence now, so that if they actually need to go down that path, they have already accumulated some of the revenue to pay for 3rd party maintenence people.

Besides Telecom only use accredited Telecom installers/maintainers.  I was under the impression they started steering away from their own technical fleet a few years back?




Intel Core 2 Duo E6600, 4x 2GB Adata 1066+ DDR2, Sapphire HD4850 X2 2GB GDDR3 PCI-E Quad DVI, 1000w PSU & over 4TB HDD space, Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit
PS3 Slim


27876 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 7371

Moderator
Trusted
Biddle Corp
Lifetime subscriber

  # 102017 28-Dec-2007 11:24
Send private message

kinsten: In reality any Naked DSL supplier should start charging Wire Maintenence now, so that if they actually need to go down that path, they have already accumulated some of the revenue to pay for 3rd party maintenence people.

Besides Telecom only use accredited Telecom installers/maintainers.  I was under the impression they started steering away from their own technical fleet a few years back?


But the cost of providing wiring maintenance is unlikely to cover costs unless it was hiked up substancially. I know Fair Go has knocked Telecom numerous times in the past over wiring maintenance charges but in reality Telecom still claim that the amount they collect doesn't cover costs. An ISP reselling Naked ADSL and charging a few dollars per month for wiring maintenance isn't going to be able to cover costs when a typical service call could easily cost ~$100 to fix up a few jackpoints.

IMHO calling in a 3rd party service person and paying for repairs is just something that people have to factor in if they choose to go down the Naked ADSL path.

 
 
 
 


4332 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 94

Moderator
Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  # 102020 28-Dec-2007 11:32
Send private message

In reality, how many people are going to need wiring maintenance? I have never needed, nor was it ever needed when I was still living at home.

Sbiddle is quite right in saying that most people will only have problems when either someone does a DIY add-on job. Or when it was installed by a DIY guy. So although YOU may not have done anything, who is to say what stupid things the last home owner may have done, or his 'mate'.

The only time that ISP's and Telco's should be providing Wiring insurance, is if they did the install themselves, or if the install was done by an accredited installer.

Nate wants an iphone
3906 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 33

Mod Emeritus
Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  # 102023 28-Dec-2007 11:40
Send private message

It might not be used much, but think about it. When I've been down the tech visit path - I was told that it would cost $81 if the tech identified that it was a CPE issue/internal wiring issue (if I didn't have the wiring maintance insurance) when I had my broadband connection issue at my old premises, and that it would be more to fix any jackpoints/wiring.

If you have a very simple set up - its probably fairly straight forward but as soon as you have more complex set ups, such as multiple jackpoints etc, if anything goes funky in the household - the $2 or so dollars looks quite small compared to the costs involved with having a tech come out and bill you for it.




webhosting |New Zealand connectionsgeekzone IRC chat
Loose lips may sink ships - Be smart - Don't post internal/commercially sensitive or confidential information!




250 posts

Master Geek

Trusted

  # 102069 28-Dec-2007 15:20
Send private message

What sort of cost is it likely to be to fix a problem.
Obviously that will depend on what problems it is but i'm just interested in an average sort of cost.

It's not just the $2-$3 wire maintenance each month that would be saved but also the fact that it is cheaper than telecom overall.

If it's just the $81 that cokemaster mentioned then thats fine, even a couple hundred would probably be alright.
You'd have to be very unlucky for it to happen more than a couple of times while you're living at a house.

100 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 2

Trusted

  # 102070 28-Dec-2007 15:31
Send private message

well anyone living in a house older than 20years old, i would suggest maintenance contract.
$81 is the call out fee only, it would cost something like $70 hour for the labour  (takes 30-60mins to fix) plus materials
what sucks is that, if the wiring was installed by another party, and not up to telecom standard, and your paying maintanance insurance, than you'll still got to pay the call out fee plus labour and material, than your gonna end up having a dispute with the tech who installed your jackpoints etc etc.. *headache*

than again, its unlikely cause to any dsl fault is found in the internal wiring.
maintainance only good for rental line, cause it sh*ts out all the time.. (personal experience) and while my line is down, my dsl connection is fine..

so pointless with naked dsl..








alvstar2001

Nate wants an iphone
3906 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 33

Mod Emeritus
Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  # 102075 28-Dec-2007 16:10
Send private message

It comes down to judgement - I have wiring maintance mainly because I don't really want to be hit with a bill if I have PSTN or DSL issues. I see it as a safety net.

However, others may decide to take the path of not having it (or are forced to due to it not being offered). Just because you aren't running POTS over the landline doesn't mean that internal wiring is no longer an issue if it breaks or is damaged. At the end of the day its their choice (or not, in the case of NDSL?).

As a sidenote, the swear filter is there for a purpose, alvstar2001. It is not to be evaded. Consider this a warning.




webhosting |New Zealand connectionsgeekzone IRC chat
Loose lips may sink ships - Be smart - Don't post internal/commercially sensitive or confidential information!


240 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 8


  # 102086 28-Dec-2007 17:21
Send private message

Yes, out of all the places I have lived with DSL (all 5 households) we never once had to call on wire maintenence, except for initial setup which cost us anyway.

With the low possibility of actually maintaining someone elses botch-ups (don't rent the movie BOTCH) the small fee of $2 or even $5 multiplied by the number of Naked DSL users may not cover complete costs, but poses a healthy safety net for their consumers which will only be smiled at (if only sometimes someone complains about it) but will certainly take the sting out of it for both parties.

Perhaps someone should setup an Electrical Maintenece & Repair Insurance Fund or some such thing, which people can invest a small fee into, with an initial $60 appraisal fee to check their current wireing setup.  Then when things go wrong they could call the EMRIF and get them to sort the problem out.  This kind of company could become very popular if Users & ISPs partaking in Naked DSL do not want to fork the full costs for line maintenence.

But yes, personally I would just pay for someone to fix my lines up myself (knowing people in the professional field helps) as this is usually less hassle & no back n forth type oprations like I have experienced with *ahem* Telecom once in the past.
Edit: This situation was not for myself, but someone else I was helping out at the time.




Intel Core 2 Duo E6600, 4x 2GB Adata 1066+ DDR2, Sapphire HD4850 X2 2GB GDDR3 PCI-E Quad DVI, 1000w PSU & over 4TB HDD space, Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit
PS3 Slim


5440 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2515

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  # 102092 28-Dec-2007 17:34
Send private message

I think the safest way to avoid potential issues here is get a fresh professionally installed cable from the demarcation point to a single new jack-point at the placement of your router. This makes your N-DSL connection very simple and should be problem free for years to come. At the same time, you would have your existing cable at the demarcation point disconnected from the Telecom network, which would then enable you to back wire your VoIP line into you existing jack-points.




Chorus has spent $1.4 billion on making their xDSL broadband network faster and even more now as they are upgrading their rural Conklins. If your still stuck on ADSL or VDSL, why not spend $195 on a master filter install to make sure you are getting the most out of your connection?
I install - Naked DSL, DSL Master Splitters, VoIP, data cabling and general computer support for home and small business.
Rural Broadband RBI installer for Ultimate Broadband and Full Flavour

 

Need help in Auckland, Waikato or BoP? Click my email button, or email me direct: [my user name] at geekzonemail dot com


27876 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 7371

Moderator
Trusted
Biddle Corp
Lifetime subscriber

  # 102116 28-Dec-2007 19:28
Send private message

coffeebaron: I think the safest way to avoid potential issues here is get a fresh professionally installed cable from the demarcation point to a single new jack-point at the placement of your router. This makes your N-DSL connection very simple and should be problem free for years to come. At the same time, you would have your existing cable at the demarcation point disconnected from the Telecom network, which would then enable you to back wire your VoIP line into you existing jack-points.


I would also suggest to anybody building a new house or planning on major renovations to install a structured cabling solution. Cutting cat5 cable around your house is dirt cheap (providing you don't use cowboys who will rip you off) and in a few years time you'll be thanking yourself for doing so.

 1 | 2
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic



Twitter and LinkedIn »



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

Anyone can broadcast with Kordia Pop Up TV
Posted 13-Jun-2019 10:51


Volvo and Uber present production vehicle ready for self-driving
Posted 13-Jun-2019 10:47


100,000 customers connected to fibre broadband network through Enable
Posted 13-Jun-2019 10:35


5G uptake even faster than expected
Posted 12-Jun-2019 10:01


Xbox showcases 60 anticipated games
Posted 10-Jun-2019 20:24


Trend Micro Turns Public Hotspots into Secure Networks with WiFi Protection for Mobile Devices
Posted 5-Jun-2019 13:24


Bold UK spinoff for beauty software company Flossie
Posted 2-Jun-2019 14:10


Amazon Introduces Echo Show 5
Posted 1-Jun-2019 15:32


Epson launches new 4K Pro-UHD projector technology
Posted 1-Jun-2019 15:26


Lenovo and Qualcomm unveil first 5G PC called Project Limitless
Posted 28-May-2019 20:23


Intel introduces new 10th Gen Intel Core Processors and Project Athena
Posted 28-May-2019 19:28


Orcon first to trial residential 10Gbps broadband
Posted 28-May-2019 11:20


Video game market in New Zealand passes half billion dollar mark
Posted 24-May-2019 16:15


WLG-X festival to celebrate creativity and innovation
Posted 22-May-2019 17:53


HPE to acquire supercomputing leader Cray
Posted 20-May-2019 11:07



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.


Support Geekzone »

Our community of supporters help make Geekzone possible. Click the button below to join them.

Support Geezone on PressPatron



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.