Pal coax crimp connections! Design or disaster?

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NZRobin

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#26000 9-Sep-2008 02:08

I know everyone says use F crimp connectors but all the component's from the wall socket to the TV including my new extra HD receiver (thanks Spong) uses Pal push in connectors so today I went to Jaycar's and picked up a few crimp Pal connectors and here the confusion starts. You just new that was coming didn't you! The centre electrode in the plug isn't open ended so it's not possible to solder it! Nor does it have a screw. How apart from putting a slight bend in the wire prior to crimping does it get a decent connection?

cyril7

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#163223 9-Sep-2008 07:57

Do what most installers do, forget crimp on PAL connectors, instead just crimp on an normal F then use an adaptor.

I have to agree that Bellinglee connectors (aka PAL connectors) are pretty flimsy, they probably were ok in the days of RG59 fly leads, but with a bulky steel cored rg6 hanging on them they are inclinded to destroy themselves.

The AS/NZ standard states that Bellinglee/PAL must be used for FTA V/UHF connections (both on the equipment and on wallplates), and F for LBand, personally I never fit PAL wall plate mechs regardless of the standard they just are too flimsy and should have been abandond and used Fconnector for all 75ohm RF distribution as in the US. Bit like hanging on to BT phone connectors for years and years and finally dropping it for RJ's.

Vestiges of the Empire I guess.

Cyril

NZRobin

161 posts

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#163361 9-Sep-2008 19:33

Thanks Cyril, Yes that makes perfect sense. I'll go back and change them for some F connectors + adaptors. I've used those rough and ready screw clamp Pal connectors in the past but at least they had a positive clamp for the centre pin even if it wasn't necessary the best for the signal transfer!

Mantis

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#164421 15-Sep-2008 02:00

Just upgraded the lead from the splitter to TV card with a quad shielded RG6 cable with a F-connector and adaptor and it has made a huge difference to my Prime reception, it's finally viewable. Much better than the old pal connectors.

Bung

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#164425 15-Sep-2008 07:04

cyril7: Bit like hanging on to BT phone connectors for years and years and finally dropping it for RJ's.

Vestiges of the Empire I guess.

Except that the RJ system isn't technically superior just the winner in the global market place. BT was designed to overcome some of the flaws in the RJ system which had already been used in the US for 10 years or more.

cyril7

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#164428 15-Sep-2008 07:18

Yes, I am sure, the old VHS/Beta thing has prevailed, as I understand it the last country still actively using BT is the UK, all other countries including NZ have moved away from it, pity PTC only recommend you use RJ45 instead of BT instead of insisting for all new installs and rebuilds.

Could someone explain why BT is anything up to 5-10x the price of RJ, one preumes volume, but that much dearer?, kinda puts the nail in it, no?

Edit, by the way, other than an inbuilt shutter and slightly wide pin spacing (which seems to not be an issue for bandwidth related performance but possibly reliability and peak voltage withstanding) I dont see any real advantage in BT at all.

Cyril

Bung

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#164437 15-Sep-2008 07:57

cyril7:Could someone explain why BT is anything up to 5-10x the price of RJ, one preumes volume, but that much dearer?, kinda puts the nail in it, no?

Edit, by the way, other than an inbuilt shutter and slightly wide pin spacing (which seems to not be an issue for bandwidth related performance but possibly reliability and peak voltage withstanding) I dont see any real advantage in BT at all.

Cyril

Not sure what's happening now but Telecom used to insist on all BT jackpoints including Teleprmitted ones being dipped in a conformal coating after flux removal as an anticorrosion measure. I don't know that the UK require this so that would skew the volume numbers even further.

Reliability was the main driver. In the early 80's when BT was introduced, it wasn't just the socket it was also the use of Krone idc rather than screw terminals. Most RJ telephone sockets were still screw terminal then.

Structured cabling isn't covered by the Telecom's wiring maintenance. If all sockets change to RJ I'd bet on wiring maintenance being dropped.

richms

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#164484 15-Sep-2008 11:50

If telecom would install decent demarcs then I think that wiring maintenance should be dropped... IMO there is no place for it with structured cabling and ADSL being the norm nowdays.

As for having the "pal" connectors on settops.. Bloody stupid idea, they are total crap, and with there being 2 types of leads its just even more confusing for people vs the 1 type of lead that F connectors have. If ease of installation for tards was a concern then they should have just required that a F to belling-lee flycable for the RF out side was included, and a belling-lee to F male was also supplied. The wiring requirements for belling-lee outlets is a joke, and I dont know anyone that actually follows it since if you are putting in structured coax as well, you need F for if its used for Lband.

Richard rich.ms

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NZRobin

161 posts

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#164982 17-Sep-2008 01:00

Well, hadn't realised just how bad my cable/connection was. Was showing my Mother in Law what her new LCD TV was like on Prime because we have such crap reception after making up a short cable and what do you know, it wasn't half bad. Threw out my old lead which I'm ashamed to say consisted of THREE joined leads between the wall socket and TV, with a new good quality lead crimped terminals and adaptors and hey presto a decent picture!

Thanks...

richms

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#165132 17-Sep-2008 17:52

Oh yeah, those leads that come with VHS's etc which are impossibly thin have so much loss at UHF freqencies. If you have a good signal level they are tollerable, but without an amp in most cases the losses are enough to make prime a snowfest since its at the top of the UHF. There is normally a few dB of gain in the modultors on a VCR which makes up for the junk cable.

Richard rich.ms