My freeview HD, not HD!?

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#647177 27-Jun-2012 18:59

da5id: My folks bought a Panasonic 42" LED TV (TH-L42E5) today as well, and I am noticing the same thing. If I go closer to the screen to check it out, I notice jaggys around words etc.

Is there a difference between Freeview and Freeview HD? Is there any such thing apart from Freeview HD any more? How can you tell?
eg, does the One News watermark at the top of the screen still say One News | HD?
Our TV just says One News.

It's all a bit confusing.

One News.

Regards,

Old3eyes

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#647181 27-Jun-2012 19:04

The news isn't in HD, and it does not look HD because it isn't. TV3 news isn't HD. In fact both TVNZ and TV3 have no ability (no intention really) to play out any studio content in HD. TVNZs first HD sports broadcasts (apart from Olympics and RWC) only started two weekends ago.

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da5id

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#647185 27-Jun-2012 19:12

Thanks.

I'm just reading some reviews, and it looks like we got gypped a bit.

We were looking for something with a 100 Hz screen, and although this said 150 Hz on the box, the guy did say that it was really only 100, and that is was made 150 Hz because of the inbuilt scanning trick or something. Now I find out that it's basically only a 50 Hz panel which is converted to 150 Hz by this scanning trick :(

grrrr

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#647198 27-Jun-2012 19:37

Freeview broadcasts are 50Hz. That's all anyone has to play with initially.

sbiddle

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#647199 27-Jun-2012 19:43

da5id: Thanks.

I'm just reading some reviews, and it looks like we got gypped a bit.

We were looking for something with a 100 Hz screen, and although this said 150 Hz on the box, the guy did say that it was really only 100, and that is was made 150 Hz because of the inbuilt scanning trick or something. Now I find out that it's basically only a 50 Hz panel which is converted to 150 Hz by this scanning trick :(

grrrr

TV is only broadcast in 50Hz, either 50FPS if it's progressive scan or 25 FPS if it's interlaced.

The first thing you should do with any TV is disable all the image processing, noise reduction etc, along with all post processing such as 100/150Hz mode.

All a 150Hz TV does is make take a 50Hz source and display this at 150Hz by interpolating frames, ie creating it's own fake frames for 2 out of every 3 frames which it inserts between existing frames. It's the biggest sham to hit the market since organic water.

da5id

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#647239 27-Jun-2012 20:47

Hmmm, OK. The thing at the top left of the screen does say "1080i / 50 Hz"

So, you're saying that no matter what the Hz rate of the TV itself, that Freeview will never really look any better? Even with a native refresh rate of 100 Hz?

And how does this affect bluray?
Would bluray look better on a 100 Hz or 200 Hz TV?

They did have a 40" Samsung TV on display there with a 200 Hz screen that looked AWESOME.
Was playing the Thor bluray and the motion and clarity was so much better than the models next to it.

Would getting a TV with a higher Hz rate (say 100 Hz) make blurays look better?
I guess I'm just a stickler for getting the best quality and sharpness for the price, since we're going to the trouble of buying a new TV and all.

sbiddle

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#647243 27-Jun-2012 20:50

A Blu Ray is still only 50Hz.

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da5id

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#647247 27-Jun-2012 20:54

sbiddle: A Blu Ray is still only 50Hz.

Hmmm, I could still tell the difference instore though between the model that displayed at 200 Hz vs the ones around it. The motion was really smooth and slidey (if you know what I mean).

My folks are talking about taking it back tomorrow. Do you think it's worth doing that?
Actually, my mother hates the tinny sound it produces. We'd have to look at getting some kind of external speakers.

Dunnersfella

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#647249 27-Jun-2012 20:55

Honestly...
If you get close to a big screen TV, the quality will reduce.
The signal is high def, not full HD. Don't believe the hype - it's a 'very good' picture, not pixel perfect.
If you're afraid it's due to the brand of panel you've bought, just thank your lucky stars you haven't picked up a cheap Samsung 'direct LED'...

Jaxson

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#647250 27-Jun-2012 20:56

sbiddle: A Blu Ray is still only 50Hz.

24 fps...

sbiddle

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#647252 27-Jun-2012 20:58

Panasonic Plasma's are still IMHO the best TV's you can buy and show that picture quality comes with price, not Hz. The difference between a $899 50" Panasonic Plasma and a $3000 50" Panasonic Plasma is very significant.

Nety

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#647267 27-Jun-2012 21:59

Jaxson:
24 fps...

In 90% of bluray's yes.. and yes they "judder" like anything but that is the frame rate of the source. As sbiddle touched on TV's that have motion flow type technology in them make calculated guesses on where each bit of the picture would be in between those 24 frames and to some people look better however you are not seeing more of the original information you are seeing guesswork by the TV. Oh and the other 10% they have been filmed in digital HD at a higher frame rate. Things like Planet Earth are good examples of just how good bluray could really look if studios would just give up on the old outdated frame rate of 24p.

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#647268 27-Jun-2012 22:15

illicit: Turn off all "enhancements" eg: resolution enhancer, live colour, dynamic picture mode

I did this on my new samsung, and the picture is so much better without the enhancers.

With enhancements on, faces and other objects had a waxy smooth look. Almost like a plasticine objects instead of real life.

The detail is so much better with enhancements off (maybe a little more noise but that is fine).

bfginger

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#647307 27-Jun-2012 23:54

My folks bought a Panasonic 42" LED TV (TH-L42E5) today as well, and I am noticing the same thing. If I go closer to the screen to check it out, I notice jaggys around words etc.

For 1080i stations like TV1, 2 and 3 on most TVs you will need to disable overscan to stop seeing jaggies.

Is there a difference between Freeview and Freeview HD? Is there any such thing apart from Freeview HD any more? How can you tell?
eg, does the One News watermark at the top of the screen still say One News | HD?

There has been alot of confusion over this. Freeview comes via satellite which is all standard definition MPEG-2, or via UHF which is all MPEG-4 and has TV1, 2 and 3 in 1080i50 HD and the others are in SD. Most content on TV1, 2 and 3 is not provided in HD so they upscale the picture and broadcast it in a 1080i frame.

I'm just reading some reviews, and it looks like we got gypped a bit.

We were looking for something with a 100 Hz screen, and although this said 150 Hz on the box, the guy did say that it was really only 100, and that is was made 150 Hz because of the inbuilt scanning trick or something. Now I find out that it's basically only a 50 Hz panel which is converted to 150 Hz by this scanning trick :(

Most people don't really know what they're buying but many know higher numbers are better so Samsung and Sony have been using funny numbers which aren't the actual panel Hz but which even the salesmen in the shops mistakenly write down on the specifications tags as being the panel Hz. It looks like Panasonic is is using real numbers but not the ones people will think they are. The motion smoothness may be slightly better than a plain old 50Hz panel but it isn't going to be a full substitute.

If you only just bought this TV I recommend you consider asking for a refund if you purchased it on the basis of incorrect information about the panel Hz supplied by the shop staff.

So, you're saying that no matter what the Hz rate of the TV itself, that Freeview will never really look any better? Even with a native refresh rate of 100 Hz?

Freeview won't look better but LCD technology is a transmissive technology so motion is more jerky than a good plasma or CRT television is per frame. 100Hz and 200Hz LCDs with motion interpolation exist to give smoother motion than an LCD with a refresh rate the same as broadcast refresh rates.

And how does this affect bluray?
Would bluray look better on a 100 Hz or 200 Hz TV?

Nearly all Blu-ray movies are 1080p24 so there are two ways that can be delt with. Often the Blu-ray player will transcode to 1080i/p60 and the TV will either display 1080p60 or interpolate to 120Hz or higher. The other option is the Blu-ray player is set to give the TV a 1080p24 signal and the TV may interpolate that to say 96Hz.

Actually, my mother hates the tinny sound it produces. We'd have to look at getting some kind of external speakers.

Nearly all TVs now have very weak sound. People do not buy on sound and fewer care about it. But people want slim, stylish TVs which can only fit small, tinny speakers.

Panasonic Plasma's are still IMHO the best TV's you can buy and show that picture quality comes with price, not Hz. The difference between a $899 50" Panasonic Plasma and a $3000 50" Panasonic Plasma is very significant.

If price isn't a big issue think about this model if you manage to get a refund. It was last year's top of the range and has good sound and motion
http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=905574

da5id

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#647317 28-Jun-2012 00:33

Thankyou very much for your post and your info.
Not sure if my folks want to return the TV or not, but I will definitely pass along that model/info :)

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