Does NZ really have an IT Skills shortage?

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133 posts

Master Geek

#1596609 22-Jul-2016 06:07

dryburn:
It really seems that there is a shortage of competent people that are capable of rapid on the job training.

I know this is unorthodox but I have been here since June and been applying for entry level positions, IT Support roles, to be honest is really lower level and really basic IT. These roles required simple A+ N+ etc. Certificates.

English is my only language, So I have no problem with that. Over 5 years of work experience with transferable skills. I sent my CV, which was catered for a Software Dev Role, to an excellent international NZ company and even had an interview this morning, but they only had entry level junior support roles that don't even require any qualifications beside half a brain.

I have a degree and thus want to be challenged accordingly. I don't have commercial development experience but want to get into Software Development as a career (I have worked with a few languages and would be able to pick up another pretty quickly) or at least something that is a lot more challenging than "Is it plugged in?, Is it turned on?"

By the way, I have a work visa and willing to do some temp work for "NZ experience"

All of the skilled people who would be providing on the job training are too busy doing their job. This is why companies ask for staff with experience. Training someone is a burden on a company, as you are removing an expensive resource from paying work to do the training. Large companies with skilled staff on the bench are the best bet if you want this, but most smaller companies do not have the capability to do this.

Sadly, I run into a lot of people with a sense of entitlement because they have a degree / some paper certificate etc. If you are not prepared to start at the bottom and work your way up to the role you want, you will remain unemployed for a long time.

Dynamic

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#1596612 22-Jul-2016 07:19

spearsniper: All of the skilled people who would be providing on the job training are too busy doing their job. This is why companies ask for staff with experience. Training someone is a burden on a company, as you are removing an expensive resource from paying work to do the training.

It's not easy taking on graduates (based on limited experience), but that's not an excuse not to do it. Established companies not prepared to invest in growing graduates into useful engineers should not be able to complain about a skills shortage.

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alasta

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#1596614 22-Jul-2016 07:33

spearsniper:

Yep - totally a skills shortage in a few fields.

It is a buoyant market at the entry level, and as you get into specialties, the gap between supply and demand widens vastly.

Data Science / BI, ... seem to have the all of the vacancies and nobody to fill them.

This interests me. I am not in 'IT' as such, but I'm a commercial analyst with skills in SQL and BI tools. My on the ground experience is in using data modelling skills to feed into executive decision making and I'm not finding a lot of opportunities out there, but a recruiter I spoke to this week seemed to think that it's hard to find people with these skills. I guess it doesn't matter too much if there aren't a lot of suitable jobs out there if there aren't many candidates competing for them.

spearsniper

133 posts

Master Geek

#1596617 22-Jul-2016 07:37

Dynamic:

It's not easy taking on graduates (based on limited experience), but that's not an excuse not to do it. Established companies not prepared to invest in growing graduates into useful engineers should not be able to complain about a skills shortage.

No, it's not easy, and not every company has a structure that is appropriate or nurturing for a grad. I work in a company that has no juniors, no call centre or mail room to start out in - it's a consultancy company that prides itself on being the best at what it does.

When looking for staff, they need to fit the company brief, and be ready to hit the ground running. This is where a lack of skilled staff in NZ hits us hard, and looking abroad for these skill sets is now common place.

I would like to see tertiary institutions teach skills that are actually usable in the workplace, to lower the barriers for grads starting out.

dryburn

430 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1596619 22-Jul-2016 07:41

toyonut:

We are really struggling to find anyone who can do Devops at the moment where I work. It is just me and another Dev and we need more people. Looking at grads at the moment to see if we can find anyone with some passion and skill for working with a team and delivering applications and then teach them the skills on the job.

I would take either a sysadmin with Powershell, Windows Server and some knowledge of IIS and SQL or a dev who wants to do more than just write code. I learned on the job and I am happy for someone else to as well as long as they are keen. We need automation, application build, test, deployment, scripting and VM configuration management and moving into deployment into Azure. Those kind of skills are not easy to come by.

The quality of CV's that come through are rubbish so far and the few I have called that look ok have not made it through a phone interview. Lots of yes of course I know about that and when pressed they have once copied a script from the internet and run it.

spearsniper, Dude forgive me if I'm wrong but i find your comment slightly rude and condescending. Firstly you must have skipped the sentence, "I have over 5 years of work experience with transferable skills" I don't think I asked to be team lead, solutions specialist or analyst, or even CEO my post was reaching out to others here who complained about finding suitable applicants and who were now looking at taking in some graduates, or some who could learn on the job"

Man I am even doing simple mystery shopper work and some promotion work lined up for the end of the month. I'm not sitting around waiting for a job.

I am repeating myself here, but I did say that I have applied for SIMPLE SUPPORT ROLES so your hint about me not wanting "to work my way up" is just silly.

dryburn

430 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1596621 22-Jul-2016 07:46

spearsniper:

No, it's not easy, and not every company has a structure that is appropriate or nurturing for a grad. I work in a company that has no juniors, no call centre or mail room to start out in - it's a consultancy company that prides itself on being the best at what it does.

When looking for staff, they need to fit the company brief, and be ready to hit the ground running. This is where a lack of skilled staff in NZ hits us hard, and looking abroad for these skill sets is now common place.

I would like to see tertiary institutions teach skills that are actually usable in the workplace, to lower the barriers for grads starting out.

Oh I see where you're coming from now. Yeah of course it depends what the company culture is and who their main customers are. So there isn't any room for hiring Grads.

Dynamic

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#1596624 22-Jul-2016 07:58

spearsniper:

Dynamic:

It's not easy taking on graduates (based on limited experience), but that's not an excuse not to do it. Established companies not prepared to invest in growing graduates into useful engineers should not be able to complain about a skills shortage.

No, it's not easy, and not every company has a structure that is appropriate or nurturing for a grad. I work in a company that has no juniors, no call centre or mail room to start out in - it's a consultancy company that prides itself on being the best at what it does.

When looking for staff, they need to fit the company brief, and be ready to hit the ground running. This is where a lack of skilled staff in NZ hits us hard, and looking abroad for these skill sets is now common place.

I would argue this is taking (unfair?) advantage of organisations that are prepared to train staff, or laziness, etc. If everyone in the industry did that, we would be up the creek without a paddle. My 3rd hire after we had been running for 4 years was a junior with the right attitude.

I would like to see tertiary institutions teach skills that are actually usable in the workplace, and lower the barriers for grads starting out.

I see a number of Industry Training Organisations for different NZ industries... perhaps we need an ITITO!

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spearsniper

133 posts

Master Geek

#1596625 22-Jul-2016 08:02

dryburn:

spearsniper, Dude forgive me if I'm wrong but i find your comment slightly rude and condescending. Firstly you must have skipped the sentence, "I have over 5 years of work experience with transferable skills" I don't think I asked to be team lead, solutions specialist or analyst, or even CEO my post was reaching out to others here who complained about finding suitable applicants and who were now looking at taking in some graduates, or some who could learn on the job"

Man I am even doing simple mystery shopper work and some promotion work lined up for the end of the month. I'm not sitting around waiting for a job.

I am repeating myself here, but I did say that I have applied for SIMPLE SUPPORT ROLES so your hint about me not wanting "to work my way up" is just silly.

dryburn:

"I have a degree and thus want to be challenged accordingly. I don't have commercial development experience but want to get into Software Development as a career"

Having heard this numerous times makes me totally cynical - excuse me if this is upsetting to you. Having worked in IT companies large and small, and having been involved in the recruitment of staff, this is a red flag statement.
What it says to me is that the simple support role you have applied for is just a stepping stone, you will treat it as such, and possibly look down on the staff who are doing that role as a career. (this is not a theory - this happens all too often).
It is good to have career aspirations, but you need to understand that employers want someone to fill a current need in the business. They have your CV, so know what your skills are. Once in the simple support role, you can ask for additional tasks that fit your skillset, and grow your personal brand via your work ethic and skills.

dryburn

430 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1596654 22-Jul-2016 08:45

spearsniper:

Having heard this numerous times makes me totally cynical - excuse me if this is upsetting to you. Having worked in IT companies large and small, and having been involved in the recruitment of staff, this is a red flag statement.

Thank you for sharing that with me, I'll be careful not to mention that again.

spearsniper:

What it says to me is that the simple support role you have applied for is just a stepping stone, you will treat it as such, and possibly look down on the staff who are doing that role as a career. (this is not a theory - this happens all too often).

I have done the time, I did two years of IT support. The reason I mention "Simple", is the fact that companies want people with A+ N+ etc. Those certificates are a walk in the park. My Grandfather aged 71 years completed an A+ certificate here in NZ a few years back, he did it to keep himself busy. He even remarked how simple it was. I don't look down upon people who do those jobs, but personally I couldn't see myself doing that for years to come. I have good friends who where and are in IT support roles but some have taken on more responsibility than others and have progressed in their careers.

spearsniper:
It is good to have career aspirations, but you need to understand that employers want someone to fill a current need in the business. They have your CV, so know what your skills are. Once in the simple support role, you can ask for additional tasks that fit your skillset, and grow your personal brand via your work ethic and skills.

Thanks again for your informative response, that is exactly what I plan on doing, I am new here and therefore have to accept a junior role and then gradually work my way up by proving myself. That's why I want to try to move away from support roles and over to Software Dev or Tester roles so there is a better career path.

BigMal

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Ultimate Geek

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#1596671 22-Jul-2016 09:13

dryburn:

BigMal:

I'm regularly on the look out for quality Java Devs and Test Engineers. Lots of applicants don't live up to their CV's.

I'd definitely say there is a skills shortage in these areas.

What level are those roles?

Generally seniors but we are making an active effort to recruit interns and graduates into entry level programming roles to be placed in established teams where they can be mentored and trained.

nunz

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#1597426 23-Jul-2016 19:42

surfisup1000:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11677903

Salaries in New Zealand's IT sector have fallen 2 per cent due in part to the increasing arrival of international talent and a lift in the number of job applicants.

IT salaries dropped from $82,000 to $80,000 in the January year, says recruitment consultants Absolute IT in its latest remuneration report.

I'm guessing the article applies more to developers/application support type roles.

There is a skills shortage so you'd think salaries would be on the increase.

Is there really a skills shortage or are employers just unwilling to pay market rates and/or train locals?

My opinion is more the latter, although I concede there will be some specialist areas with real skills shortages.

It makes me question whether schools should provide IT training as a core subject (as has been reported in the media over the last week or so).

Absolutely - look at the bottom of the barrel crap we get for support from the ISPs. No offence to the people on the phones but they are seriously under skilled nad under trained most of the time. We have a lack of good quality IPS support line people in NZ. also unless spark thinks peeving off its clients with 2 hour waits is good business, then they either dont give a toss or there is a lack of staff they can hire.

mattwnz

20164 posts

Uber Geek

#1597435 23-Jul-2016 20:02

Apparently Chorus have a major shortage of staff too to fix faults. They said on the radio that they were currently overwhelmed with faults, and they are looking for more than 200 extra staff, some which may have to come from overseas. I wonder how well those positions are paid and what the workload is like?

mattwnz

20164 posts

Uber Geek

#1597438 23-Jul-2016 20:05

nunz:

Absolutely - look at the bottom of the barrel crap we get for support from the ISPs. No offence to the people on the phones but they are seriously under skilled nad under trained most of the time. We have a lack of good quality IPS support line people in NZ. also unless spark thinks peeving off its clients with 2 hour waits is good business, then they either dont give a toss or there is a lack of staff they can hire.

To be fair, they would only be following flowcharts. The thing is that support is expensive to provide, and ideally ISPs would prefer that they could do it all online or via an automated phone system. I guess we aren't that far away from call centres being fully automated like this, although they 'Siri like' technology will need to improve quite a bit.

hio77

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Lizard Networks

#1597450 23-Jul-2016 20:23

nunz:

surfisup1000:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11677903

Salaries in New Zealand's IT sector have fallen 2 per cent due in part to the increasing arrival of international talent and a lift in the number of job applicants.

IT salaries dropped from $82,000 to $80,000 in the January year, says recruitment consultants Absolute IT in its latest remuneration report.

I'm guessing the article applies more to developers/application support type roles.

There is a skills shortage so you'd think salaries would be on the increase.

Is there really a skills shortage or are employers just unwilling to pay market rates and/or train locals?

My opinion is more the latter, although I concede there will be some specialist areas with real skills shortages.

It makes me question whether schools should provide IT training as a core subject (as has been reported in the media over the last week or so).

Absolutely - look at the bottom of the barrel crap we get for support from the ISPs. No offence to the people on the phones but they are seriously under skilled nad under trained most of the time. We have a lack of good quality IPS support line people in NZ. also unless spark thinks peeving off its clients with 2 hour waits is good business, then they either dont give a toss or there is a lack of staff they can hire.

unfortynately, it seems too common to pick less skilled people for such roles, Long lasting positions atleast anyway.

Once skill is identified, often they move up the chain.

#include <std_disclaimer>

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

nunz

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#1597462 23-Jul-2016 20:46

alasta:

spearsniper:

Yep - totally a skills shortage in a few fields.

It is a buoyant market at the entry level, and as you get into specialties, the gap between supply and demand widens vastly.

Data Science / BI, ... seem to have the all of the vacancies and nobody to fill them.

This interests me. I am not in 'IT' as such, but I'm a commercial analyst with skills in SQL and BI tools. My on the ground experience is in using data modelling skills to feed into executive decision making and I'm not finding a lot of opportunities out there, but a recruiter I spoke to this week seemed to think that it's hard to find people with these skills. I guess it doesn't matter too much if there aren't a lot of suitable jobs out there if there aren't many candidates competing for them.

Its very specific. Me>

Lotus Notes dev skills - Nope

Visual Basic - nope (unless I went to porirua ) - nope

Java, DBMS, aS400, API but no front end programming other than applets - Nope

C code - not embedded - nope

VBA - nope

Access - nope

HTML 3, 4, 5, CSS, CSS2, latest CSS, Bootstrap CSS, Blueprint CSS, Java Script experience, angular JS, some jQuery, Soap, corba, com, Ole, NOPE, NOPE and NOPE . I don't know the specific frameworks requested.

PHP / MySQL ( but again not the specific frameworks wanted )- Nope.

Sybase,

Dos, Windows 2, win3, 3,11, 95, 98, xp, vista, 7, 8, 8,1, 10, SBS 2003, Exchange, sbs 2008, sbs 2012, nope!

Pascal, Basic, Basica, Z80, old assembler, nope.

Linux command shell - nope.

Ubiqiti long range 2.4 / 5.8 wireless. nope.

Got to be very very explicit skill to get work.

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