HDD Fails - Retailer has to pay for pro recovery? Yes it happened

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mattwnz

20147 posts

Uber Geek

#2201024 18-Mar-2019 19:41

Lias:

I was thinking about this, and after my initial "WTF" I can actually get on board with this under some circumstances, particularly when the item is very new. For instance I had a friend who purchased a new SD card, went on honeymoon, took lots of snaps, and it failed a few days after he got home before he'd had time to download anything off it, and he lost all the photos from his honeymoon.

Can't you buy HD devices that will download a card contents without a laptop. Also many will take a laptop too on holiday, or an ipad with a camera card import thing. It is very risky not backing it up! Also the camera can cause corruption of the card, so it may not be anything to do with the storage medium at all. Likewaise a harddrive could fail if there was a power spike or power supply problem, or just a problem with the computer etc.

The problem is that people need to take responsibility for their own data and making backups. Maybe they should sell harddrives and card with a special data protection warranty, to protect against this.

mattwnz

20147 posts

Uber Geek

#2201026 18-Mar-2019 19:43

Bung:
tchart: Like I've already said I've had some many newish drives just crap out on me without misuse that makes me question the reliability. >

AFAIK most commentators on drive reliability say that failure rates more than 1 or 2% would be a disaster for the brand. You may not be responsible for any misuse but someone else in your chain could be. I always collect rather than trust couriers with a small package like that.

Most memory products make it clear that a warranty return won't include data restoration.

We don't know how old the drive was anyway. But all will likely eventually fail over time. I remember when they used to have 5 year warranties on physical hard drives but now I think 1-2 year is the norm, and they have only covered replacement and not data. The fact that the warranty provides less protection than the CGA appears to according to the DT result, is a bit odd.

sxz

761 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2201031 18-Mar-2019 19:54

Linux: That is insane this is going to open a big can of worms

Insane yes, but no, it wont open a can of worms.

Disputes Tribunals decisions can not set legal precedents. Probably because they do not have to follow the strict letter of the law.

The correct answer here is something called 'contributory negligence' - how much did the persons actions cause the loss. Most people in the IT space would agree that if you dont have 2 or 3 copies, you have no copies, so he contributed to his own loss. It can reduce an award by any percentage the court decides is appropriate

mattwnz

20147 posts

Uber Geek

#2201033 18-Mar-2019 19:57

sxz:

Disputes Tribunals decisions can not set legal precedents.

Those the DT disallow the person making a claim, from using the results in another case as an example? I have always wondered this.

MadEngineer

4274 posts

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#2201078 18-Mar-2019 20:23

robjg63:

https://www.disputestribunal.govt.nz/disputes-decision-finder/?Filter_Jurisdiction=26

I can't find anything...

Would/should it be on that site?

+ it's on redit. I'm not convinced this is all legit.

You're not on Atlantis anymore, Duncan Idaho.

Bung

6479 posts

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#2201147 18-Mar-2019 21:02

mattwnz:
Bung:
tchart: Like I've already said I've had some many newish drives just crap out on me without misuse that makes me question the reliability. >

AFAIK most commentators on drive reliability say that failure rates more than 1 or 2% would be a disaster for the brand. You may not be responsible for any misuse but someone else in your chain could be. I always collect rather than trust couriers with a small package like that.

Most memory products make it clear that a warranty return won't include data restoration.

We don't know how old the drive was anyway. But all will likely eventually fail over time. I remember when they used to have 5 year warranties on physical hard drives but now I think 1-2 year is the norm, and they have only covered replacement and not data. The fact that the warranty provides less protection than the CGA appears to according to the DT result, is a bit odd.

I see that my recollections are out of date probably referring to drives less than 1T. There are a lot of figures from a data centre with 27000 drives quoted by all and sundry. Some Seagate drives don't look very flash.

networkn

Networkn
32350 posts

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#2201161 18-Mar-2019 21:18

1101:

Consequential loss .
Its the same if your washing machine fails & floods the house , sort of.

There is very little you can do to practically avoid the consequence of a flooded washing machine, but there is no excuse for not having a backup. Really! Ignorance is no longer a defense in my view.

Lenovo

Shop now for Lenovo laptops and other devices (affiliate link).

tripper1000

1617 posts

Uber Geek

#2201255 18-Mar-2019 22:43

If this catches on I can see HDD's getting a rebate scheme.

When you buy it, you pay a jacked up price of recommended retail +$500 or so.

When it goes out of wty, you can get a $500 rebate.

If it fails in wty, well, guess how they pay for the data recovery?

If you parallel import, you get no wty, just like normal.

It would also encourage people to look after their stuff.

lNomNoml

1807 posts

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#2201286 18-Mar-2019 23:55

This is why tech is so expensive here.

k14

629 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2201529 19-Mar-2019 12:23

wellygary:

robjg63:

https://www.disputestribunal.govt.nz/disputes-decision-finder/?Filter_Jurisdiction=26

I can't find anything...

Would/should it be on that site?

Its not there (yet)... He said it was in Feb 2019.... there are no Feb 19 decisions posted yet....

None from 2018 either (where I had a case). Pretty sure that either that site no longer gets updated or they just put a sample of each "type" of case up there to allow people to research. For instance, there are only 1 or 2 in relation to the CGA.

k14

629 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2201530 19-Mar-2019 12:25

1101:

All that needs to happen is , in clear writing, on the front of the packet (ie not hidden in tiny print on the back)

"Manufacturer and reseller accept no responsibility for data loss. It is the customers responsibility to backup data"

But no, because marketing dept has more sway engineering dept .
I'd bet this is on the manufacturers website somewhere, or in tiny writing somewhere in the enclosed docs in the packaging.

You could easily argue that the data loss was 100% caused by failure of the product, so manufacturer has some liability.

Consequential loss .
Its the same if your washing machine fails & floods the house , sort of.

The manufacturer/retailer can print/say whatever they like, this does not over ride the Consumer Guarantees Act. I am not saying the decision in this case was the correct one but regardless what is printed on the package the CGA is the over riding law.

vulcannz

436 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user

#2201545 19-Mar-2019 12:53

Reading the post it sounds like the PB Tech rep contributed more to the decision by not answering questions in a relevant way, potentially didn't listen to the DT guys questions, and didn't put any though into their side of the story. Sounds like the DT guy got frustrated. Possibly related to english as a second language.

In a consequential losses claim I would expect the DT (or PBtech) to ask what exactly was lost and what was the actual value. If the answer was as indicated in the post - illegal movie copies - I think the decision may have been different.

Jogre

182 posts

Master Geek

#2201723 19-Mar-2019 14:39

mattwnz:

Lias:

I was thinking about this, and after my initial "WTF" I can actually get on board with this under some circumstances, particularly when the item is very new. For instance I had a friend who purchased a new SD card, went on honeymoon, took lots of snaps, and it failed a few days after he got home before he'd had time to download anything off it, and he lost all the photos from his honeymoon.

Can't you buy HD devices that will download a card contents without a laptop. Also many will take a laptop too on holiday, or an ipad with a camera card import thing. It is very risky not backing it up! Also the camera can cause corruption of the card, so it may not be anything to do with the storage medium at all. Likewaise a harddrive could fail if there was a power spike or power supply problem, or just a problem with the computer etc.

The problem is that people need to take responsibility for their own data and making backups. Maybe they should sell harddrives and card with a special data protection warranty, to protect against this.

When I went to UK and on honeymoon, took two external HDDs and mirrored from the SD Card. Wife had a single external with 4 years of travel photos on it that she dropped = immediate drive failure so after that I always do that. I read that Reddit thread and wanted to slap the author. Don't buy Seagate, why do you need data recovery for pirated movies? PBTech will learn a lesson, don't offer to do a solid and try fix, just process an RMA and send him a replacement = costs them nothing.

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