Government proposal for telecommunications security legislation changes

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#813314 7-May-2013 21:56

networkn: Well for me it's the same as any security feature or rule, if I am not doing anything I am not supposed to, this won't bother me in the slightest. If they want to read the emails between my wife and I, well more power to them. Personally I think they have better things to do.

Post your email account login + password so we can have a look to then, please. :) (Or feel free to PM them to me)

gzt

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#813316 7-May-2013 22:02

Wrong argument there kyhwana2. Networkn is happy for the New Zealand government access to that information and trusts them not to misuse it. I can guarantee he does not feel the same about other parties.

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#813340 7-May-2013 22:35

gzt: Wrong argument there kyhwana2. Networkn is happy for the New Zealand government access to that information and trusts them not to misuse it. I can guarantee he does not feel the same about other parties.

Right, so after all the government cock ups leaking private information, you trust the New Zealand government with access to everything about you, even stuff you want to keep private?

Don't make me laugh.

EDIT:
Also, the law allows for warrentless wiretapping to protect "economic security" aka Key's Rich Mates. (Or whoever the PM happens to be at the time, I suppose.

What you're happy for someone to know now, might not be true in the future, once they have that info, you don't know who's coming along later to see it.

Just because YOU trust them, doesn't mean I do. (And I don't. Just like how you you don't trust me with your email/logins to everything, I don't trust the NSA^W sorry the GCSB/Government with access to all of that)

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#813347 7-May-2013 22:41

this kinda thing smells of US interference

networkn

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#813392 7-May-2013 23:44

kyhwana2:
networkn: Well for me it's the same as any security feature or rule, if I am not doing anything I am not supposed to, this won't bother me in the slightest. If they want to read the emails between my wife and I, well more power to them. Personally I think they have better things to do.

Post your email account login + password so we can have a look to then, please. :) (Or feel free to PM them to me)

Ah geez, there is one or two in every thread like this one.

Hopefully you will wake up in the morning and realize this isn't even remotely the same thing.

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#813395 7-May-2013 23:49

Right, so after all the government cock ups leaking private information, you trust the New Zealand government with access to everything about you, even stuff you want to keep private?

Absolutely. The Government is made of people, people make mistakes, even if all my personal information was leaked by accident by the Government, whilst some of it might be mildly embarrassing it's not going to be the end of the world. If that's the potential cost of being safe, I'm ok with that. Same as scanners at airports, so what is a complete stranger gets to see an outline of my junk, everyone is in the same boat, and I'd rather get on a plane confident it's not going to be taken down by a numbskull with a bomb in his shoe (or somewhere else).

People need to get over themselves.

EDIT:
Also, the law allows for warrentless wiretapping to protect "economic security" aka Key's Rich Mates. (Or whoever the PM happens to be at the time, I suppose.

What you're happy for someone to know now, might not be true in the future, once they have that info, you don't know who's coming along later to see it.

Just because YOU trust them, doesn't mean I do. (And I don't. Just like how you you don't trust me with your email/logins to everything, I don't trust the NSA^W sorry the GCSB/Government with access to all of that)

Conspiracy Theorist much?

GBristow

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#813408 8-May-2013 00:49

networkn: Well for me it's the same as any security feature or rule, if I am not doing anything I am not supposed to, this won't bother me in the slightest. If they want to read the emails between my wife and I, well more power to them. Personally I think they have better things to do.

Benjamin Franklin once said "Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

The message being that compromising on core principles like the right to privacy is a very easy path to tyranny. Many people have fought and died for the rights you enjoy today, yet you would throw them away because you just don't care. I guess the adage "they won't miss it until it's gone" applies here.

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#813423 8-May-2013 07:01

kyhwana2:
networkn: Well for me it's the same as any security feature or rule, if I am not doing anything I am not supposed to, this won't bother me in the slightest. If they want to read the emails between my wife and I, well more power to them. Personally I think they have better things to do.

Post your email account login + password so we can have a look to then, please. :) (Or feel free to PM them to me)

Also, please tell us about:

* How much you get paid
* Your religion
* Who you voted for in the last general election (and will be voting for next time)
* And what you did the last time you had ***

You haven't done anything wrong, right?

This 'if you haven't done anything wrong, you have nothing to hide' argument leaves me cold. *Everybody* has things in their life that are neither illegal, immoral, nor even unusual, but they are nobody's business but your own. Nobody should have the power to inspect those things unless they have a need that is so serious that an impartial judge agrees it is in the public's interest to do so, right then, and only for that purpose.

When people have the ability to watch whatever they want, whenever they want it, they will abuse it eventually. It's not a coincidence that all three of these examples come from the UK - it's the most watched society in the world.

But basically, this is what will happen in New Zealand if we let it. I personally don't want to live in a panopticon.

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#813434 8-May-2013 07:45

This legislative change updates the law to take into account changes in telecommunications and it's usage. It also rubber stamps what has been taking place in recent times. As with this and other legal powers the vast majority of citizens have nothing to worry about, their emails re last nights date and next weekends party are safe.

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#813442 8-May-2013 07:54

networkn: Well for me it's the same as any security feature or rule, if I am not doing anything I am not supposed to, this won't bother me in the slightest. If they want to read the emails between my wife and I, well more power to them. Personally I think they have better things to do.

Image in five years time things changed. A new government has come to power. And they don't like white anglican people. And they create laws that make sure white anglican people can't own a business, or a house, or have to pay more for some government issued documents such as passports.

Easy. Just keep the fact you are a white and anglican person from them, right?

So they look around their mountain of collected data for white anglican people and find YOU because of your emails or phone calls to the vicar.

Then they go around and round up the white anglican people.

You never done anything wrong. But they caught YOU.

There's a reason why things are private. The interests of a government should not be bigger than the interests of a person.

And no, GOVERNMENT is not the same as NATION. Governments are temporary institutions.

Once you give rights to a government it's really hard to take them away.

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#813443 8-May-2013 07:57

KiwiNZ: This legislative change updates the law to take into account changes in telecommunications and it's usage. It also rubber stamps what has been taking place in recent times.

Yep. That's correct. It updates the technology and requirements for legal interception. Telcos today already have legal interception requirements by law, and should follow a legally issued warrant.

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#813448 8-May-2013 08:00

At least the legislation is amusing, it brings on a paranoia fest

imagine if Forums like this were in place when during WW2 the then Government gave itself wide ranging powers.

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#813452 8-May-2013 08:04

KiwiNZ: At least the legislation is amusing, it brings on a paranoia fest

imagine if Forums like this were in place when during WW2 the then Government gave itself wide ranging powers.

The National Socialist Party was elected to power. The people (understandably) chose promises of security in exchange for authoritarian government. It worked out well for them.

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#813453 8-May-2013 08:07

You're very close there. Don't step that line.

Also during the war there were exceptional events that required this. But for that governments could put the country on martial law. This condition should be a time limited set of rules, therefore only applicable in cases of extreme emergency.

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#813455 8-May-2013 08:09

freitasm: You're very close there. Don't step that line.

Also during the war there were exceptional events that required this. But for that governments could put the country on martial law. This condition should be a time limited set of rules, therefore only applicable in cases of extreme emergency.

Indeed, I chose my words very carefully so as not to Godwin the discussion whilst still pointing out the shining example of the danger of giving up rights in exchange for security.

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