Civil Defences mobile alert system

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#1882998 13-Oct-2017 13:34

PaulBags: My point is what are the laws and regulations? ARE there any?

I don't see why there would be a need for any.

I'm assuming you haven't yet asked CDEM?

Coil

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#1883000 13-Oct-2017 13:36

caminham:

Amazingly, in iOS it appears they can be turned off. I'm not going to share the details here but, if you really want to make sure you can sleep through potentially deadly disasters, do a quick search.

I thought it was noted in the last thread that the option to turn it off has been removed?

Oblivian

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#1883001 13-Oct-2017 13:37

Linux:

What is your point? This is going to read as a Tin foil hat thread soon

What is wrong with the alert format? Wrong font?

Linux

The other 2 threads already did. (1 before being locked)

Not helpful to the answer, but since the questions are arising again and laid out in the FAQ as I pointed out in the other thread... For all intensive purposes without a technical whitepaper information on the CDEM page appears to point at any updates to be a CHANNEL CHANGE via NZ Specific firmware update from upstream manufacturer (as with Samsung VNZ/TNZ specific vs XSA...) similar to Sbiddle thinking.

Sure the function is built in to mobiles, especially new off the shelfs available to NZ (designed for NZ market) or pure Android 6+ but appear it may by CDEMs hand change off the standard US amber CH50, and built in functions when disabling turns that off only.

What brings me to this conclusion? Joining the dots -

Other possible reasons for not receiving the alert may include your phone being off, on flight mode or out of cellular coverage.

The following lists the phones sold in New Zealand and known to be Emergency Mobile Alert capable

We anticipate most new phones sold by New Zealand mobile network operators

If your phone is configured to receive Emergency Mobile Alerts overseas, it may also work in New Zealand.

In New Zealand, you won’t be able to opt-out of receiving Emergency Mobile Alerts. Phones may show settings that are used in other countries where they can opt out of different levels of alerts, but in New Zealand we will use a special broadcast channel that is permanently on.

So again, PBTech and parallel units *may* be exempt. Or if it's an import and still got it due to software allowing multiple channels and so on - flightmode.

kiwicam

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#1883002 13-Oct-2017 13:40

Coil:

I thought it was noted in the last thread that the option to turn it off has been removed?

Sorry, I tuned out of the last thread :-)

It's still there on mine running the latest 11.0.2. Possibly the 11.1 beta has it removed but I can't find anything in Apple's documentation.

EDIT - Thanks for the clarification @Oblivian, looks like this setting won't have any affect anyway.

wellygary

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#1883013 13-Oct-2017 14:12

PaulBags: Thanks, I think I will ask the ombudsman.

I can think of a few reasons to opt out, but staying on topic for this forum mandatory unnotified & unconsented government software installation snuck in with an update is an interesting - and disturbing - precident, whether or not it was required by law.

The Ombudsman will refer you back to the Department,

Their job is to solve issues once a department has specifically denied to give you something they should have....

Ask the Ministry of Civil Defence, under the Official Information Act, for all documents and reports on implementing the alert system,

If they refuse then you have ground to contact the Ombudsman,

I think you will find the that Network operators are doing this willingly, thus there is no law/regulation needed to require them to do it....

MikeB4

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#1883017 13-Oct-2017 14:32

wellygary:

PaulBags: Thanks, I think I will ask the ombudsman.

I can think of a few reasons to opt out, but staying on topic for this forum mandatory unnotified & unconsented government software installation snuck in with an update is an interesting - and disturbing - precident, whether or not it was required by law.

The Ombudsman will refer you back to the Department,

Their job is to solve issues once a department has specifically denied to give you something they should have....

Ask the Ministry of Civil Defence, under the Official Information Act, for all documents and reports on implementing the alert system,

If they refuse then you have ground to contact the Ombudsman,

I think you will find the that Network operators are doing this willingly, thus there is no law/regulation needed to require them to do it....

This or the simpler routes of either forgetting it and move on or turning the phone off, however you should consider that the likely hood of further tests would be very slight and if so it will be like they do when testing the CD sirens in the Hutt City, well advertised before hand.

michaelmurfy

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#1883020 13-Oct-2017 14:39

I locked the last thread as it was going around in circles anyway. I don't understand why you've got such a problem with it and why you keep going on about it. The next time it goes off you'll either have warning or it'll be an actual emergency where you'll likely need to take action - this is the point of it. This is something you shouldn't disable as it could be the difference of life or death for yourself and people around you.

This is the reason why it is highly annoying and why you can't turn it off. I honestly think you should drop the subject and move on - plenty of other things to complain about.

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frankv

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#1883141 13-Oct-2017 20:54

sbiddle:

Why would anybody want to opt out?

I wonder who gets to decide whether a particular emergency is serious enough to broadcast an alert? How long before this mechanism (but perhaps with less dramatic ring-tones?) is used to warn of traffic accidents, road closures, AOS callouts, tornadoes, etc?

I imagine that a way to send messages to the citizenry at large that they can't ignore must be tempting for a government.

Oblivian

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#1883190 13-Oct-2017 22:24

frankv:

sbiddle:

Why would anybody want to opt out?

I wonder who gets to decide whether a particular emergency is serious enough to broadcast an alert?

http://www.civildefence.govt.nz/get-ready/civil-defence-emergency-management-alerts-and-warnings/emergency-mobile-alert/emergency-mobile-alert-frequently-asked-questions-faq/

Only certain emergency agencies are authorised to send Emergency Mobile Alerts when there is a serious threat to life, health or property. Scheduled test alerts may also be sent.

The only agencies currently authorised to issue alerts are:

New Zealand Police
Fire and Emergency New Zealand
The Ministry of Health
The Ministry for Primary Industries
The Ministry of Civil Defence and Emergency Management
Local Civil Defence Emergency Management Groups.

blakamin

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#1883194 13-Oct-2017 22:41

Jeez, I wish this was the only problem in MY life!

Solve the problem, I've got a Sony Ericsson T610 you could buy off me.

PaulBags

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#1883199 13-Oct-2017 23:01

Submitted an OIA request through FYI.org.nz, I guess that's /thread for now unless anyone spots anything relevant in the mean time.

ANglEAUT

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#1884112 16-Oct-2017 08:36

sbiddle:
PaulBags: Here's two: phone's being used for other purposes (e.g my kitchen clock), and avoiding scheduled tests.

Also, the alerts' format is terrible. It's not a reason to disable, but would like to see it addressed.

I can't see why there would ever be a need for scheduled tests.

For the same reasons as they test the air horns with every daylight savings change? Do you not "test" restore your backups? Do you not run speed "tests". You have to verify functionality somehow.

Please keep this GZ community vibrant by contributing in a constructive & respectful manner.

kiwicam

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#1884115 16-Oct-2017 08:39

IcI:

sbiddle:
PaulBags: Here's two: phone's being used for other purposes (e.g my kitchen clock), and avoiding scheduled tests.

Also, the alerts' format is terrible. It's not a reason to disable, but would like to see it addressed.

I can't see why there would ever be a need for scheduled tests.

For the same reasons as they test the air horns with every daylight savings change? Do you not "test" restore your backups? Do you not run speed "tests". You have to verify functionality somehow.

That's a good point. Testing is an important part of any critical system. Maybe what @sbiddle meant was "I can't see why there would ever be a need for scheduled tests at midnight."

sbiddle

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#1884121 16-Oct-2017 09:01

IcI:

sbiddle:
PaulBags: Here's two: phone's being used for other purposes (e.g my kitchen clock), and avoiding scheduled tests.

Also, the alerts' format is terrible. It's not a reason to disable, but would like to see it addressed.

I can't see why there would ever be a need for scheduled tests.

For the same reasons as they test the air horns with every daylight savings change? Do you not "test" restore your backups? Do you not run speed "tests". You have to verify functionality somehow.

There are very simple ways of testing the service without alerting every phone connected to the network.

It's pretty hard to test a warning siren without everybody hearing it.

PaulBags

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#1884132 16-Oct-2017 09:38

I would think live tests would be better, to let people test their devices are functioning properly, and remind them about the system and what alerts are like.

Also for feedback, not that apparently anyone cares about the user experience, even whether the alerts are understandable...

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