Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


spacedog

482 posts

Ultimate Geek


#284018 25-Mar-2021 17:03
Send private message

Hi,

 

Hoping this is the correct place to post and hoping someone can steer me in the correct direction (short of my just reading the entire Telecommunications act word-for-word).

 

I have just received a notification from our internet/landline provider (Vodafone) that Chorus is planning to decommission our copper landlines by August 2021 and we should switch to fibre/VDSL/VOIP. 

 

The problem is we have no fibre, our ADSL runs over the same copper landlines, and we have no cellular coverage at our address.  So while I would be thrilled to switch to fibre or VDSL, no such service exists.

 

What legal rights do I have? Can Chorus just decide to terminate our copper landlines we have had for over 20 years and take our phone and ADSL service away without offering us an alternate service?

 

Here's a little background about our situation (in case this thread turns into a  'use RBI' discussion)....

My business is located on Waiheke (as some may know from my prior posts on Geekzone) and we have a long history of issues with getting reliable broadband service at our location.  We have copper landlines and ADSL that runs around 4-5mbps and goes down multiple times a year due to a long and deteriorating copper cable that runs to our properties from Rocky Bay through Whakanewha.  We are also in an area where we do not receive cellular signal either so Vodafone 3G/4G RBI has been explored and is not an option.  Fibre was run (last year) across our property driveway, but we were told that is Chorus's backhaul and only available to customers on request. I made an 'NGA on application' through Vodafone and Chorus came back with $103,000 for us to connect (the fibre and an access port is literally <4m from one of our buildings).  So our options our limited to get any service and now it seems they are saying we are going to lose our analog phone lines and our ADSL service and be cut off from phone and internet access.

 

We do use a local business to supplement our internet with some WiFi access, but it is subject to all the problems of WiFi internet (rain degradation, latency, interference, packet loss, power outages, etc...).  When compared to fixed line internet it just doesn't meet the same level of reliability and this is why our phone line, voip, and suresignal repeater all run over this copper ADSL line so that we can operate our business.  Furthermore, this WiFi internet service is a small Waiheke based business so there is always the risk that this small business could fold-up shop and with Chorus saying we are going to be disconnected from all service, we could find ourselves cut-off from the basic services we have had the last 20 years.

 

 

 

So I'm wondering if we have any legal rights here or if we can just be 'decommissioned' from phone and internet service.

 

 

 

 


Filter this topic showing only the reply marked as answer View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
 1 | 2 | 3 | 4
cyril7
9061 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified
Trusted
Subscriber

  #2680586 25-Mar-2021 17:20
Send private message

If there is no fibre genuinely available at an address then there is no removal of copper, period.

Cyril



richms
28218 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #2680598 25-Mar-2021 17:39
Send private message

No removal of copper, but what about when noone will resell service over that copper because they determine that the support hassle is too much for something as unreliable and unprofitable as residential consumer broadband over derelect copper?





Richard rich.ms

RunningMan
8965 posts

Uber Geek


  #2680608 25-Mar-2021 18:18
Send private message

Is this just voice being turned off (not copper) combined with some Vodafone spin?

 

As in they can't suggest a move to VDSL if there is no copper.




sbiddle
30853 posts

Uber Geek

Retired Mod
Trusted
Biddle Corp
Lifetime subscriber

  #2680614 25-Mar-2021 18:29
Send private message

I think you're confusing a few very different issues.

 

To the best of my knowledge there are no announced Chorus copper shutdowns planned for this year. From later this year however Chorus will have the right to shut down copper services in UFB areas.

 

What is being shutdown this year is the Spark POTS network as they decommission their NEAX switches. This network is nothing to do with Chorus and is simply carried over Chorus copper. Phase 1 exchange shutdowns were in December, there are more as part of phase 2 next month, and (off the top of my head and I don't have the list handy) about another 25 or so in phase 3 which from memory is the end of September.

 

If you're with a provider that resells Spark POTS services when you won't have a copper POTS service. End of story. This is nothing to do with Chorus.

 

In some areas where the NEAX shutdowns have occurred (Miramar and Devonport so far) Spark have also decided to discontinue all copper broadband services as well. Once again this is nothing to do with Chorus, it is Spark making a commercial decision to stop providing copper services.

 

So without knowing what is actually being discontinued it's hard to comment further.. I'm assuming that your exchange is presumably one of the phase 3 shutdowns and so maintaining a copper landline won't be possible unless you elect to go with a provider who offers baseband over IP voice services.

 

 

 

 

 

 


BlakJak
1276 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

  #2680676 25-Mar-2021 20:57
Send private message

Feels like you should maybe talk to your service provider and get the full story before posting to GZ?!

 

They know what services you have, you can tell them what services you require, and they can explain how you continue to have access to those services.

 

Then you can tell us and we'll all know.




No signature to see here, move along...

nztim
3829 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified
Trusted
TEAMnetwork
Subscriber

  #2680682 25-Mar-2021 21:19
Send private message

if you have no Fibre and wish to keep your "copper landline" then switch to NOWNZ who will deliver your landline via Baseband IP instead of resold NEAX voice - This is the only RSP I know supporting this service

 

if you have Fibre, then switch to Fibre its a no brainer

 

 

 

 





Any views expressed on these forums are my own and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer. 


nztim
3829 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified
Trusted
TEAMnetwork
Subscriber

  #2680683 25-Mar-2021 21:20
Send private message

sbiddle:

 

In some areas where the NEAX shutdowns have occurred (Miramar and Devonport so far) Spark have also decided to discontinue all copper broadband services as well. Once again this is nothing to do with Chorus, it is Spark making a commercial decision to stop providing copper services.

 

 

MIR4 and MIR5 NEAX 61Ks are still running despite the 18 December deadline coming and gone





Any views expressed on these forums are my own and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer. 


 
 
 

Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).
antoniosk
2358 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified
Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #2680741 25-Mar-2021 21:50
Send private message

spacedog:

 

Hi,

 

Hoping this is the correct place to post and hoping someone can steer me in the correct direction (short of my just reading the entire Telecommunications act word-for-word).

 

I have just received a notification from our internet/landline provider (Vodafone) that Chorus is planning to decommission our copper landlines by August 2021 and we should switch to fibre/VDSL/VOIP. 

 

The problem is we have no fibre, our ADSL runs over the same copper landlines, and we have no cellular coverage at our address.  So while I would be thrilled to switch to fibre or VDSL, no such service exists.

 

So I'm wondering if we have any legal rights here or if we can just be 'decommissioned' from phone and internet service.

 

 

 

 

So what did your service provider Vodafone say, when you called them and asked about alternatives?





________

 

Antoniosk


nztim
3829 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified
Trusted
TEAMnetwork
Subscriber

  #2680745 25-Mar-2021 21:55
Send private message

antoniosk:

 

So what did your service provider Vodafone say, when you called them and asked about alternatives?

 

 

Considering limited cell service they don't have much choice VOIP over a 4mbps ADSL with no priority tagging is a death wish





Any views expressed on these forums are my own and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer. 


Kiwifruta
1423 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

  #2680835 26-Mar-2021 03:05
Send private message

Have you considered starlink?

spacedog

482 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2680840 26-Mar-2021 06:53
Send private message

Answering several posts at once here:

 

@BlakJak - yes, I did contact my account manager at Vodafone about this the minute I got the notification and before I posted. They have confirmed, as has been done countless times before, that we still do not have coverage for *anything* under the RBI or Fibre options.  I have demanded they push this back to @chorusnz, but it's been nearly 4 weeks and Vodafone still can't get any answers for me. Want the full story of this saga - read my OP from last year

 

@sbiddle - Hopefully you are right and perhaps Vodafone got it wrong, but they told me this was coming from Chorus.  If it's just the POTS and they can keep using duct tape and #8 wire to keep the copper going, then I can at least survive by porting all the phone numbers to VOIP and trying to pipe them over that ADSL connection. We have 3 copper POTS/analog lines. Not ideal, but our ADSL connection is what keeps us alive and operating when the WiFi falls over (which happens a lot!).  However, according @nztim it sounds like that would be pretty marginal.

 

@kiwifruta - not available yet and satellite options are the dead last resort in my opinion.  Traditional ones have far too much cost and far too much latency.  Will have to see if Starlink really delivers on it's promise.

 

However - I seem to have had my primary question answered in this post which I previously did not see before making this post (sorry all - don't know how I missed this) - https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=95&topicid=280348 - this seems to answer my original question about my rights. Which says Chorus is not supposed to yank our service.  I guess once I get some kind of solid information, if they say they are going to then I guess I have to file with the Telecommunications Disputes Resolution Service.


cyril7
9061 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified
Trusted
Subscriber

  #2680846 26-Mar-2021 07:11
Send private message

Hi, as I understand it the regulations around pulling of exisitng copper only allows it to be pulled where a funded solution is in place to keep services running, ie UFB or RBI(4G/Wisp) based solutions, if none are the copper must be retained and must be serviced.

 

Cyril


sbiddle
30853 posts

Uber Geek

Retired Mod
Trusted
Biddle Corp
Lifetime subscriber

  #2680848 26-Mar-2021 07:14
Send private message

Something needs to be made very clear here. This issue is NOTHING to do with Chorus. Chorus don't own the NEAX POTS network and don't provide phone services. Spark do.

 

Chorus provide xDSL broadband services and these are not being discontinued. If your RSP is choosing to discontinue your xDSL service then this is an issue with your RSP, not Chorus.

 

 

 

 


cyril7
9061 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified
Trusted
Subscriber

  #2680851 26-Mar-2021 07:19
Send private message

Further, while your local NEAX might be pulled there is still voice cards in the isam to give pots service, VOIP on a flakey adsl circuit might not be pleasant, if voda won't provide voice from the isam then change RSP to one who will, which is what @nztim was eluding to.

Cyril

spacedog

482 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2680854 26-Mar-2021 07:21
Send private message

I understand what you are saying @sbiddle - but I'm just the messenger here and this is what I was told by Vodafone and they pointed the finger at Chorus.  Perhaps the folks at Vodafone are just confused and incorrectly informing me.  Just like @chorusnz incorrectly informed me via a letter drop that I would be getting UFB and then said the letter drop was a mistake.... 

 

Sadly, I spend a lot of time decoding and unravelling incorrect/impartial/inaccurate information from both Vodafone and @chorusnz


 1 | 2 | 3 | 4
Filter this topic showing only the reply marked as answer View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic





News and reviews »

Gen Threat Report Reveals Rise in Crypto, Sextortion and Tech Support Scams
Posted 7-Aug-2025 13:09


Logitech G and McLaren Racing Sign New, Expanded Multi-Year Partnership
Posted 7-Aug-2025 13:00


A Third of New Zealanders Fall for Online Scams Says Trend Micro
Posted 7-Aug-2025 12:43


OPPO Releases Its Most Stylish and Compact Smartwatch Yet, the Watch X2 Mini.
Posted 7-Aug-2025 12:37


Epson Launches New High-End EH-LS9000B Home Theatre Laser Projector
Posted 7-Aug-2025 12:34


Air New Zealand Starts AI adoption with OpenAI
Posted 24-Jul-2025 16:00


eero Pro 7 Review
Posted 23-Jul-2025 12:07


BeeStation Plus Review
Posted 21-Jul-2025 14:21


eero Unveils New Wi-Fi 7 Products in New Zealand
Posted 21-Jul-2025 00:01


WiZ Introduces HDMI Sync Box and other Light Devices
Posted 20-Jul-2025 17:32


RedShield Enhances DDoS and Bot Attack Protection
Posted 20-Jul-2025 17:26


Seagate Ships 30TB Drives
Posted 17-Jul-2025 11:24


Oclean AirPump A10 Water Flosser Review
Posted 13-Jul-2025 11:05


Samsung Galaxy Z Fold7: Raising the Bar for Smartphones
Posted 10-Jul-2025 02:01


Samsung Galaxy Z Flip7 Brings New Edge-To-Edge FlexWindow
Posted 10-Jul-2025 02:01









Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.