Solenoid valve on incoming water main

Forums › Gadgets, robotics, home automation, electronics (including wearables) › Solenoid valve on incoming water main - anyone done it?

SumnerBoy

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#296068 18-May-2022 09:59

I have always wanted to have control of my water main. The idea is to have water/flood sensors around the place, under washing machines, dishwashers, HWCs etc, and have a simple automation which shuts off the water main if a flood is detected - to try and minimise water damage.

Has anyone done this? Any plumbers out there that know the regs in terms of whether this is allowed, and if so what sort of valve would be permitted?

I.e. does it have to have any sort of certification, does it have to be stainless steel?

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#2915460 18-May-2022 10:19

There are tuya based valve actuators to do this specific thing. Solenoids are needing power constantly and many have duty cycle limits so look for that if you are buying solenoid valves for it.

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SumnerBoy

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#2915461 18-May-2022 10:21

I would be looking for a NO valve - don't want it energised for the 99.9% of the time the valve will be opened.

pih

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#2915462 18-May-2022 10:22

I'm also interested in solutions to this. Being on tank water has me nervous that one day I'll come home and find 30kL of water in the garden, or worse, house. And nothing left to wash the sweat off my brow.

pih

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#2915463 18-May-2022 10:24

SumnerBoy:
I would be looking for a NO valve - don't want it energised for the 99.9% of the time the valve will be opened.

I thing most fluid solenoids are actually strictly servo actuated ball valves. But I've only looked into it a little.

SumnerBoy

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#2915472 18-May-2022 10:30

This is one I found, stainless steel, 25mm, 230VAC coil (so can be controlled by KNX relays);

https://www.burkert.sg/en/products/solenoid-valves/general-purpose-2-2-solenoids/261666

But list price in NZ is almost $900!

The brass version of that I think is;

https://www.burkert.sg/en/products/solenoid-valves/water-solenoid-valves/256393

And is around $530.

I don't know enough about these things to be sure - but are these servo actuated? So in effect latching?

What happens if power is cut, does the valve open or stay in it's current position?

Bung

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#2915478 18-May-2022 10:48

A neighbour has a reasonable sized boat with the waste water tanks connected to a pump via ball valves operated by car windscreen wiper motors. He's just discovered that the spindle keying on brass valves is 90⁰ different to plastic valves reversing the intended result.

If you shut the main down because there's water in the house in a what if situation you could be trying the hose a fire while the brigade were on the way and water stops as soon as it becomes useful. There are already water stop valves on washing machine hoses that react to abnormal flow from a burst hose.

SumnerBoy

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#2915487 18-May-2022 10:54

I was waiting for the inevitable "but what if xxx happens and your water is shutoff"...

Whilst that is a possibility - but what do you reckon the chances of having a flood at the same time as a fire?

Regardless, I have smoke detectors throughout, so if smoke is detected that would override any flood sensors, and ensure the water valve is open. Plus there would of course be a manual override.

I have had a few leaks (none major thanksfully) from my washing machine, and a decent one from my fridge (chilled water inlet). So I am not going to rely on any built-in checks if I can avoid it.

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nickb800

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#2915508 18-May-2022 11:44

Assuming your house is automated up the wazoo already, you'll want to add a rule that turns off power to the hot water cylinder when the incoming water supply is stopped.

Back to the valve issue, I suspect it will be far cheaper to get a bog standard ball valve (i.e. which takes a 90 degree movement to turn on or off) and control with a linear actuator. Perhaps couple with a flow meter to verify that it's worked as intended

SumnerBoy

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#2915512 18-May-2022 11:51

Yeah I had considered adding a flow meter in the mix, regardless of what valve I use, for state feedback. But the ones I got priced up were just as expensive as the valves, i.e. $500-600.

Will look into the DIY approach of a ball valve + linear actuator. Not sure about how it would be mounted tho, or how reliable it would be.

I'm leaning towards paying the money for a proper solenoid/servo valve, or doing nothing at all (due to expense).

One thing I am also considering, is getting stainless steel drip trays custom made for under each appliance (w/m, d/w, fridge, condenser dryer). The trays would have a 50mm drain in the middle, draining out under the house (we are on timber piles). So that if there was a leak any water would get drained away before causing too much damage. Obviously not going to work if there is a burst pipe and I have mains pressure coming in...

Something like this... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8NCeo51Lkc

I've had them priced up, about $250 per tray... so not cheap either, but a decent failsafe IMO.

itxtme

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#2915514 18-May-2022 11:58

I know that a lot of this is around desire to tinker, however what I would say is that this will not decrease your insurance premiums and so in reality it is an unnecessary cost on something that is an un likely event, and for which you are already covered As an aside 240v wiring will be expensive / cant be done yourself to your outdoor toby

pih

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#2915517 18-May-2022 12:05

nickb800:
Assuming your house is automated up the wazoo already, you'll want to add a rule that turns off power to the hot water cylinder when the incoming water supply is stopped.

Have to second this. If you have a hot water leak and you shut off the mains, your cylinder could drain - I'm guessing that's not a good state to be in.

SumnerBoy

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#2915519 18-May-2022 12:07

Yep it is a bit of that for sure. But I have nice timber floors and the insurance excess on a major flood event would cover most of the cost, without the headache and disruption of having to have everything ripped up and replaced etc.

240VAC wiring won't be that bad - it is just a single run and I already have KNX 240VAC relays in place which I can wire the valve directly into - for automated control.

The valve would live under the house (as mentioned we are on piles 1m off the ground). So the wiring would be minimal - i.e. I'm not having the valve in the toby box.

SumnerBoy

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#2915520 18-May-2022 12:09

And yes - shutting off the HWC and all whiteware appliances (water connected) if the valve is closed will be implemented! Plus every notification and alert under the sun - so if it does happen I will most certainly know about it!

DonH

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#2915538 18-May-2022 12:45

SumnerBoy:

...

One thing I am also considering, is getting stainless steel drip trays custom made for under each appliance (w/m, d/w, fridge, condenser dryer). ...

I've had them priced up, about $250 per tray... so not cheap either, but a decent failsafe IMO.

Why stainless steel? The tray should be dry under normal conditions. Ordinary galvanised steel would be enough. It's a good idea though. The tray under my hot water cylinder certainly did its job when the cylinder corroded through.

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mdf

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#2915545 18-May-2022 12:57

SumnerBoy:

<snip>

One thing I am also considering, is getting stainless steel drip trays custom made for under each appliance (w/m, d/w, fridge, condenser dryer). The trays would have a 50mm drain in the middle, draining out under the house (we are on timber piles). So that if there was a leak any water would get drained away before causing too much damage. Obviously not going to work if there is a burst pipe and I have mains pressure coming in...

Something like this... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8NCeo51Lkc

I've had them priced up, about $250 per tray... so not cheap either, but a decent failsafe IMO.

Floor drains in potentially affected rooms are another option to address (or at least mitigate the effects of) this.

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