New Building Help with Cladding and Windows plaese

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elpenguino

3421 posts

Uber Geek

#2516331 2-Jul-2020 17:20

vyasnilay:

1100 -- to get R value 2.8 walls and 4.0 celling ( Is it worth to spend 1100 for small increase in R value ?)

If you want to base that answer on data you can use the BRANZ calculator here : https://www.branz.co.nz/energy-efficiency/nzs-42182009-calculation-method-tool/

You'll be able to enter all your wall and ceiling data and so on and see the difference between different insulation (and window) specifications.

Then you'll have to weigh it up against any energy savings over the life of the building (or your ownership of it if you prefer) as well as the improvement in comfort, if any.

Without knowing the buildings details for example, the ratio of glazed to wall area, you're guessing.

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

Jase2985

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#2516349 2-Jul-2020 17:55

vyasnilay:

1100 -- to get R value 2.8 walls and 4.0 celling ( Is it worth to spend 1100 for small increase in R value ?)

from what though?

i would always go above the minimum for insulation and 1100 for a house is not much in the scheme of things, could easily make that back over the lifetime.

vyasnilay

6 posts

Wannabe Geek

#2516365 2-Jul-2020 18:16

Jase2985:

vyasnilay:

1100 -- to get R value 2.8 walls and 4.0 celling ( Is it worth to spend 1100 for small increase in R value ?)

from what though?

i would always go above the minimum for insulation and 1100 for a house is not much in the scheme of things, could easily make that back over the lifetime.

yes but in the wall it increase only 0.2 and celling is 0.6 .. so I got confused that is it worth to spend the money to gain 0.x difference?

Thanks.

Jase2985

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#2516387 2-Jul-2020 18:38

i would leave the walls at 2.6 and put the saving into the ceiling and go thicker there. but still spend the 1100.

bfginger

1268 posts

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#2516529 2-Jul-2020 23:01

Nothing short of Lapland grade triple glazing comes close to the insulation R value of a minimum spec wall in New Zealand so although joinery is a smaller area the performance is influential. Going above minimum spec for insulation is worthwhile but there are diminishing returns so going from minimum spec to R2.8 for wall insulation may not make the difference going from standard R0.28 joinery to R0.6+ thermally broken + low e joinery does despite the smaller area.

Do you have a reference for that? A typical wall might be R3.6, single glazed window R0.19, double glazed window R0.43 (according to Consumer). I don't know how to do the calculations, but moderate sized windows with an R value that low seem like they'd let a lot more heat out than a wall.

R3.6 would be a best case, 14cm cavity wall in New Zealand. R2.0-R2.2 for walls would be more common; R value of insulation used doesn't = R value of wall, and ventilated bricks tend to reduce instead of increase wall R values.

Single glazed windows are R0.16, standard double glazing on a thermally unbroken frame is R0.28. R0.43 would be good low-e double glazing on thermally unbroken aluminium.

1100 -- to get R value 2.8 walls and 4.0 celling ( Is it worth to spend 1100 for small increase in R value ?)

Yes, my rough estimate is it'd make the house's room temperature 0.5c warmer in mid winter.

$5200 extra for thermally broken doesn't mean much without context of how much joinery you're getting, what profile it is and what the alternative was.

Paul1977

5042 posts

Uber Geek

#2516813 3-Jul-2020 15:22

vyasnilay:

I have been quoted

2800 - Low E - Max

4200 - Lowe - xcel

5200 - Theramlly broken window

1100 -- to get R value 2.8 walls and 4.0 celling ( Is it worth to spend 1100 for small increase in R value ?)

Black Brick -- I am not sure some site suggest darker colour brick leak some material with mostiure .. is it the issue with Upper hutt not sure.. This image I have shown to my friend and he told me it is not black brick it is charcole brick.. which tend to see like that.

Thanks,

Nilay.

You'd initially said $2700 for Max and $3800 for Xcel, why have the prices increased?

For thermally efficiency it comes down to how much you want to spend, and how long you plan to live in the house. Eventually any improvements in insulation will pay for themselves, but it could take many years. If you are planning on selling in 5 years, it may not be worth it. But if you think you'll be there 20 years then it probably is.

We plan to be in our new house a long time, so spent more than most people would on upgrading windows and insulation.

It's hard to find a truly black brick, most ones sold as black are closer to dark charcoal. We went with the below one as it was the blackest we could find, and went for black trade mortar (rather than standard grey mortar).

https://thebrickery.co.nz/product/tenerife/

The leaking of material with moisture is called efflorescence, which is minerals coming out of the brick and mortar as they dry and leaving a white residue on the outside. I think any brick and mortar can get this, but it is certainly more noticeable on black because the minerals left behind are white.

My understanding is that it is worst in the first couple of years, but can be cleaned off with some sort of chemical wash. I think it can eventually go away on it's own as well.

In Christchurch (not sure about the rest of the country) a raked mortar joint seems to be the most common because it gives a slightly sharper look, but it's also one of the worst at preventing water penetration (which can lead to more efflorescence). We went with a concave (or rolled) mortar joint instead which is better at preventing water penetration because the tooling compacts the mortar tighter, and the shape doesn't leave a lip/ledge for water to sit on. We are hoping this will help minimise efflorescence.

Not all mortar joints are suitable for all bricks though. Concave worked well on ours because it is a very smooth brick.

Google "mortar joints" and you'll find plenty of info on that.

vyasnilay

6 posts

Wannabe Geek

#2517043 3-Jul-2020 20:21

Paul1977:

vyasnilay:

I have been quoted

2800 - Low E - Max

4200 - Lowe - xcel

5200 - Theramlly broken window

1100 -- to get R value 2.8 walls and 4.0 celling ( Is it worth to spend 1100 for small increase in R value ?)

Black Brick -- I am not sure some site suggest darker colour brick leak some material with mostiure .. is it the issue with Upper hutt not sure.. This image I have shown to my friend and he told me it is not black brick it is charcole brick.. which tend to see like that.

Thanks,

Nilay.

You'd initially said $2700 for Max and $3800 for Xcel, why have the prices increased?

For thermally efficiency it comes down to how much you want to spend, and how long you plan to live in the house. Eventually any improvements in insulation will pay for themselves, but it could take many years. If you are planning on selling in 5 years, it may not be worth it. But if you think you'll be there 20 years then it probably is.

We plan to be in our new house a long time, so spent more than most people would on upgrading windows and insulation.

It's hard to find a truly black brick, most ones sold as black are closer to dark charcoal. We went with the below one as it was the blackest we could find, and went for black trade mortar (rather than standard grey mortar).

https://thebrickery.co.nz/product/tenerife/

The leaking of material with moisture is called efflorescence, which is minerals coming out of the brick and mortar as they dry and leaving a white residue on the outside. I think any brick and mortar can get this, but it is certainly more noticeable on black because the minerals left behind are white.

My understanding is that it is worst in the first couple of years, but can be cleaned off with some sort of chemical wash. I think it can eventually go away on it's own as well.

In Christchurch (not sure about the rest of the country) a raked mortar joint seems to be the most common because it gives a slightly sharper look, but it's also one of the worst at preventing water penetration (which can lead to more efflorescence). We went with a concave (or rolled) mortar joint instead which is better at preventing water penetration because the tooling compacts the mortar tighter, and the shape doesn't leave a lip/ledge for water to sit on. We are hoping this will help minimise efflorescence.

Not all mortar joints are suitable for all bricks though. Concave worked well on ours because it is a very smooth brick.

Google "mortar joints" and you'll find plenty of info on that.

Hi,

This is very good information indeed. Price difference came from me first giving the price from top of my head and second time I looked properly and wirte the price, so it was memory issue.

we are planning to live in this house for at least 15 years unless fate has differnt say in the future.

we are going with Euro Grnde Nero range from Midland bricks .. it looked quite black compare to the one you have given was our second option.

http://midlandbrick.co.nz/bricks-euro-range/

I will ask my builder about motor filling and motor .. see if he is happy to change it.

Thanks,

Nilay Vyas.

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Paul1977

5042 posts

Uber Geek

#2517139 4-Jul-2020 11:32

vyasnilay:

Hi,

This is very good information indeed. Price difference came from me first giving the price from top of my head and second time I looked properly and wirte the price, so it was memory issue.

we are planning to live in this house for at least 15 years unless fate has differnt say in the future.

we are going with Euro Grnde Nero range from Midland bricks .. it looked quite black compare to the one you have given was our second option.

http://midlandbrick.co.nz/bricks-euro-range/

I will ask my builder about motor filling and motor .. see if he is happy to change it.

Thanks,

Nilay Vyas.

Yeah, they've recently changed the Euro Grande Nero to make it blacker. I haven't seen it in person, but going from the picture on their website it is a lot blacker. The Tenerife brick we chose was noticeably darker than the old version of the Euro Grande Nero - I don't know how ours would compare to the new version.

Depending on how black the brick is, you may find it difficult to get a mortar that dries as black as the brick (if that's the look you are going for). We went with EzyMix "Jet Black" mortar, but it's still more of a dark charcoal than true black. But it turned out to be a pretty close match to our bricks.

Overall we're pleased with how it turned out.

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