Unotelly and Paypal

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#1486979 7-Feb-2016 14:29

I tried using them a while ago... but switched to a credit card.

Still, looks like many loopholes are being closed.

Hopefully Netflix / Hulu etc will only be ramping up their attempts at global libraries.

jmh

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#1486980 7-Feb-2016 14:35

Maybe it's time I started trying to understand more about Bitcoin. We should also fight to retain cash as a legal tender - banks are pressing to have it removed and allow only card payments.

jarledb

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#1487007 7-Feb-2016 15:34

seoras:

In fact if there's a better way of enabling your customer base to pay for digital goods online you'd make my day if you enlightened me to it?

There are a lot of different services available to take payment that does not include Paypal.

Stripe is one, Braintree another.

I am sure there are others that know the NZ payment gateways better than me, but one I know of is eWay

There really isn't a case that you are stuck without Paypal. Even for making payments there are usually a good selection of payment providers available when shopping.

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seoras

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#1487030 7-Feb-2016 15:49

My business is global, it's not limited to NZ. 80% of customers are N.American, 15% UK, 5% R.o.W

The upper hand that PayPal has is in it's recognised brand and the perceived safety in that brand.

Which is why it's so hard for someone new to come in and compete. Which is why I mentioned Google.

I know of eWay. I went to their launch in Edinburgh, met and spoke to their founders. Australian bank backed, I'd have to question their brand value in N.America?

Never heard of Stripe. Sounds interesting though and I wonder if UnoTelly wouldn't consider this alternative?

It looks like it's struck in the same mould as Square or Apple Pay (both of which have strong brand value - that's key for me)

Braintree's "parent organisation" is PayPal.

If PayPal have ditched UnoTelly will any of these online payment processors accept them? I'd like to know who Uno would go to if they had that choice?

jarledb:

seoras:

In fact if there's a better way of enabling your customer base to pay for digital goods online you'd make my day if you enlightened me to it?

There are a lot of different services available to take payment that does not include Paypal.

Stripe is one, Braintree another.

I am sure there are others that know the NZ payment gateways better than me, but one I know of is eWay

There really isn't a case that you are stuck without Paypal. Even for making payments there are usually a good selection of payment providers available when shopping.

freitasm

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#1487036 7-Feb-2016 15:57

Braintree is a PayPal company, so would not count on them for this.

l43a2

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#1487048 7-Feb-2016 16:23

apparently amazon has its own payment processing service... could use that?

freitasm

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#1487061 7-Feb-2016 16:57

I used Amazon a couple of times when ordering tshirts from an online store (non-Amazon). Would use again.

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NonprayingMantis

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#1487090 7-Feb-2016 17:12

old3eyes:

NonprayingMantis:

and, just to close the loop, here is the actual statement from PayPal

"As a global payments company, we have to comply with laws set by governments and regulatory agencies. PayPal does not permit the use of its service for transactions that infringe copyrights or other proprietary rights. This policy extends to services that unlawfully facilitate infringement by intentionally enabling access to copyrighted television shows or movies in places where distribution of the content is not authorized by the copyright owners. In line with this policy, PayPal has recently discontinued service to certain businesses that actively promote their services as a means to circumvent copyright restrictions and violate intellectual property laws. We apologize for any disappointment this may cause our users."

I would hardly think that Unotelly would hardly being infringing on copyrights but you as a media company lawyer will disagree.

the statement says "promote their services as a means to circumvent copyright restrictions.."

which is EXACTLY what they are doing.

copyright restrictions prevent Netflix from selling their USA version to Nzers. Unotelly promotes their service as a way to circumvent that copyright restriction.

Rikkitic

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#1487112 7-Feb-2016 18:09

Actually it says 'actively promote'. So I guess it's okay with them as long as you only whisper about it. Reminds me of the old jokes about men in back alleys offering to sell 'feelthy postcards'. At least Paypal is upfront about its hypocrisy.

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seoras

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#1487115 7-Feb-2016 18:14

So why then aren't Netflix preventing customers, with payment sources out with the copyright restricted zone, signing up for service?

UnoTelly wouldn't have a business model if Netflix were to tighten their customer location checking. Very easy to do if you check their verified billing address.

Why aren't the BBC offering a iPlayer service which requires a verifiable UK TV licence number to be used to authenticate?

Ring fencing using Geo IP address checking doesn't work. UnoTelly aren't the problem.

If the content providers wanted a much tighter solution they could easily implement one.

Is it the VPN that's the real issue here? Speaking as someone who's used the internet from a Chinese hotel room across a VPN.

I don't think exploiting the crap geoip content rights protection is enough reason to come down on the small guys when the big guys have the solution to hand.

NonprayingMantis:

old3eyes:

NonprayingMantis:

and, just to close the loop, here is the actual statement from PayPal

"As a global payments company, we have to comply with laws set by governments and regulatory agencies. PayPal does not permit the use of its service for transactions that infringe copyrights or other proprietary rights. This policy extends to services that unlawfully facilitate infringement by intentionally enabling access to copyrighted television shows or movies in places where distribution of the content is not authorized by the copyright owners. In line with this policy, PayPal has recently discontinued service to certain businesses that actively promote their services as a means to circumvent copyright restrictions and violate intellectual property laws. We apologize for any disappointment this may cause our users."

I would hardly think that Unotelly would hardly being infringing on copyrights but you as a media company lawyer will disagree.

the statement says "promote their services as a means to circumvent copyright restrictions.."

which is EXACTLY what they are doing.

copyright restrictions prevent Netflix from selling their USA version to Nzers. Unotelly promotes their service as a way to circumvent that copyright restriction.

Rikkitic

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#1487131 7-Feb-2016 19:00

NonprayingMantis:

the statement says "promote their services as a means to circumvent copyright restrictions.."

which is EXACTLY what they are doing.

copyright restrictions prevent Netflix from selling their USA version to Nzers. Unotelly promotes their service as a way to circumvent that copyright restriction.

Is this actually true? It may be, but I'm not sure. Distributing something that hasn't been paid for at all is piracy, and that is illegal, but here the content has been/is being paid for. We have had whole discussions about this. So the copyright owner says we are selling you the rights to distribute this in one area, but you are not allowed to let people somewhere else see it. So is that a matter of criminal law, or just contract law? Unotelly (or whoever) is not promoting their service as a way to circumvent copyright restriction, they are promoting it as a way to circumvent geographical restriction. You may not like this as a content owner, but is it in fact illegal? I don't think that has been settled yet. Isn't it what we have been debating for so long?

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seoras

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#1487172 7-Feb-2016 20:15

Amazon pay requires an amazon customer account.

PayPal offers payment by card without signing up to PayPal. I've had customers tell me they don't like signing up to payment services.

Yeah I'm being lazy I could offer a card payment processing option as well as PP (or Amazon).

I'm also hesitant to be too heavily reliant on one provider for everything as I'm using Amazon AWS for hosting and I must say it is excellent...

Are there as many Amazon account holders as PayPal? Not a bad suggestion certainly one to keep in mind.

Who will UnoTelly turn to? :)

l43a2:

apparently amazon has its own payment processing service... could use that?

Rikkitic

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#1487466 8-Feb-2016 13:28

I just noticed that ABC Australia is no longer working with Stremr. If I click on it, even from a search engine, I just get a timeout error. It works normally with Unotelly. I don't know if this is something ABC has done or is just a Stremr problem.

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Rikkitic

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#1487488 8-Feb-2016 13:44

Sorry, there's something else going on. It works from one computer, not from the other. No idea why.

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jarledb

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#1487495 8-Feb-2016 13:58

seoras:

Are there as many Amazon account holders as PayPal? Not a bad suggestion certainly one to keep in mind.

Amazon had 51% of the online shopping for the christmas season in the US, I think its safe to say they are a well established company in the US... :) Don't know how it is with number of accounts.

Who will UnoTelly turn to? :)

They could be using Stripe already for all I know. Stripe and a lot of other providers allow for full API integration, so its not that easy to see who the actual payment provider is (although there could be clues on your credit card statement etc).

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