2015/16 NZ Holiday Toll in double figures

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#1461148 4-Jan-2016 20:34

One of the so called Xmas road stats is my next door neighbor's father in law however he died of a heart attack while driving but still included as a road Stat.

Regards,

Old3eyes

corksta

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#1461171 4-Jan-2016 20:50

old3eyes: One of the so called Xmas road stats is my next door neighbor's father in law however he died of a heart attack while driving but still included as a road Stat.

It's not included as a road fatality unless he crashed first and then had the heart attack. If the heart attack came first, and he crashed as a result, it's not included.

Geektastic

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#1461262 5-Jan-2016 00:35

MikeB4:
Geektastic: This is easily solved.

Your parents are not driving instructors. They should not be teaching you to drive.

I think its more than that, too many just do not take driving seriously and believe the rules are optional guidelines and if they get caught
it is the police who are to blame.

1) Make it a test requirement that you have a minimum of X hours of professional instruction before a test
2) Make it a test requirement that your instructor confirms he/she believes you are ready to take the test
3) Make it a legal requirement that all drivers must have fully comprehensive insurance for the first 5 years and will have no ACC cover in that time for accidents in which they are at fault

And this is the tricky bit

4) PUNISH PEOPLE WHO DO NOT COMPLY. HARD!!! A $150 fine is NOT a punishment. It's not even a week's shopping in New World. Fines begin at $500. Cars are clamped if not paid in 2 weeks. Cars are sold and proceeds to the government if not paid in 4 weeks. Driving when banned is 2 years in prison. That kind of thing.

If you look at countries where things like driving are generally done better than here, these kind of steps (or versions thereof) are a fairly common thread. For example, in Sweden any parent wishing to teach must attend a course and be certified to do so - and most learners who do have parental teaching will also have professional teaching.

In the UK, most people I know had entirely professional teaching. My parents never taught any of their children (thank god!!), we all had only professional lessons and most people I know still there who have kids say that the test would be difficult to pass without professional instruction.

Insurance has an effect on behaviour as well - when you have no financial consequences a la ACC, it changes your view I suspect. In Europe, where you would have to have (and pay for) car insurance, a speeding fine or a DUI would have massive effects on (a) the cost of insurance and (b) whether you could get it. Here, it has no such effect.

scuwp

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#1461275 5-Jan-2016 07:50

old3eyes: One of the so called Xmas road stats is my next door neighbor's father in law however he died of a heart attack while driving but still included as a road Stat.

Trust me, if that was the case the Police would absolutely be removing him from the official stats. Sometimes it can take a while for the initial conclusions as to cause of death and then Police have to marry that up with the evidence from the scene, so their can be a delay in that decision. It is most definitely not in the Police interests to report a road fatality when there wasn't one.

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

scuwp

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#1461276 5-Jan-2016 07:58

Geektastic:
MikeB4:
Geektastic: This is easily solved.

Your parents are not driving instructors. They should not be teaching you to drive.

I think its more than that, too many just do not take driving seriously and believe the rules are optional guidelines and if they get caught
it is the police who are to blame.

1) Make it a test requirement that you have a minimum of X hours of professional instruction before a test
2) Make it a test requirement that your instructor confirms he/she believes you are ready to take the test
3) Make it a legal requirement that all drivers must have fully comprehensive insurance for the first 5 years and will have no ACC cover in that time for accidents in which they are at fault

And this is the tricky bit

4) PUNISH PEOPLE WHO DO NOT COMPLY. HARD!!! A $150 fine is NOT a punishment. It's not even a week's shopping in New World. Fines begin at $500. Cars are clamped if not paid in 2 weeks. Cars are sold and proceeds to the government if not paid in 4 weeks. Driving when banned is 2 years in prison. That kind of thing.

If you look at countries where things like driving are generally done better than here, these kind of steps (or versions thereof) are a fairly common thread. For example, in Sweden any parent wishing to teach must attend a course and be certified to do so - and most learners who do have parental teaching will also have professional teaching.

In the UK, most people I know had entirely professional teaching. My parents never taught any of their children (thank god!!), we all had only professional lessons and most people I know still there who have kids say that the test would be difficult to pass without professional instruction.

Insurance has an effect on behaviour as well - when you have no financial consequences a la ACC, it changes your view I suspect. In Europe, where you would have to have (and pay for) car insurance, a speeding fine or a DUI would have massive effects on (a) the cost of insurance and (b) whether you could get it. Here, it has no such effect.

Sounds great in theory, but in practice it will never happen. Political suicide, not to mention a big chunk of the nation couldn't afford it, which would put more out of work, unemployment rises, economy declines, crime rates go up, compliance with the new laws would be poor etc etc.

On the practical side getting the skills is only part of the equation, you also need to address attitudes. I personally blame the 'PC' brigade and schools...right back to the start. Kids are not taught things like respect, patience and consideration. It's all about "me" and it's getting worse.

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

MikeB4

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#1461277 5-Jan-2016 08:17

Driver training should be part of the school curriculum.

old3eyes

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#1461294 5-Jan-2016 08:43

corksta:
old3eyes: One of the so called Xmas road stats is my next door neighbor's father in law however he died of a heart attack while driving but still included as a road Stat.

It's not included as a road fatality unless he crashed first and then had the heart attack. If the heart attack came first, and he crashed as a result, it's not included.

Tell that to the family then as the postmortem showed it as a heart attack .. The family following said he (who was riding a motor bike) just slumped over and went off the road..

Regards,

Old3eyes

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old3eyes

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#1461296 5-Jan-2016 08:44

MikeB4: Driver training should be part of the school curriculum.

It used to be in the US but no longer.

Regards,

Old3eyes

nigelj

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#1461308 5-Jan-2016 09:28

MikeB4: Driver training should be part of the school curriculum.

They actually announced NCEA credits for drivers licenses - http://www.3news.co.nz/nznews/govt-to-offer-ncea-credits-for-driver-licences-2015120814

vexxxboy

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#1461309 5-Jan-2016 09:31

is it even a problem , people are going to die driving on roads and there is nothing really you can do to stop it. the drop in petrol prices probably played just as a bigger part in increased deaths as more people could afford to travel. More people die in accidents at home than on the road but you dont get the media posting updates on that . You can be sensible about reducing the number of deaths but introducing big fines and stricter license tests are just so people can feel like something is been done but the main reason the road toll comes down is that you have more chance of surviving a crash in todays modern cars and the work done on the main highways to make them safer .

Common sense is not as common as you think.

gzt

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#1461355 5-Jan-2016 10:26

There is a lot of things in this thread but zero review of these or any past period crash to enumerate causes and circumstances. Without that any attempt at solutions is feeling around the dark.

Geektastic

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#1461389 5-Jan-2016 10:46

MikeB4: Driver training should be part of the school curriculum.

Not really - except in general terms. Part of the problem is that children ought not to be driving...!

Geektastic

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#1461390 5-Jan-2016 10:47

scuwp:
Geektastic:
MikeB4:
Geektastic: This is easily solved.

Your parents are not driving instructors. They should not be teaching you to drive.

I think its more than that, too many just do not take driving seriously and believe the rules are optional guidelines and if they get caught
it is the police who are to blame.

1) Make it a test requirement that you have a minimum of X hours of professional instruction before a test
2) Make it a test requirement that your instructor confirms he/she believes you are ready to take the test
3) Make it a legal requirement that all drivers must have fully comprehensive insurance for the first 5 years and will have no ACC cover in that time for accidents in which they are at fault

And this is the tricky bit

4) PUNISH PEOPLE WHO DO NOT COMPLY. HARD!!! A $150 fine is NOT a punishment. It's not even a week's shopping in New World. Fines begin at $500. Cars are clamped if not paid in 2 weeks. Cars are sold and proceeds to the government if not paid in 4 weeks. Driving when banned is 2 years in prison. That kind of thing.

If you look at countries where things like driving are generally done better than here, these kind of steps (or versions thereof) are a fairly common thread. For example, in Sweden any parent wishing to teach must attend a course and be certified to do so - and most learners who do have parental teaching will also have professional teaching.

In the UK, most people I know had entirely professional teaching. My parents never taught any of their children (thank god!!), we all had only professional lessons and most people I know still there who have kids say that the test would be difficult to pass without professional instruction.

Insurance has an effect on behaviour as well - when you have no financial consequences a la ACC, it changes your view I suspect. In Europe, where you would have to have (and pay for) car insurance, a speeding fine or a DUI would have massive effects on (a) the cost of insurance and (b) whether you could get it. Here, it has no such effect.

Sounds great in theory, but in practice it will never happen. Political suicide, not to mention a big chunk of the nation couldn't afford it, which would put more out of work, unemployment rises, economy declines, crime rates go up, compliance with the new laws would be poor etc etc.

On the practical side getting the skills is only part of the equation, you also need to address attitudes. I personally blame the 'PC' brigade and schools...right back to the start. Kids are not taught things like respect, patience and consideration. It's all about "me" and it's getting worse.

I don't consider people's inability to apply their intelligence to earn money a reason for allowing them to place the rest of us at risk....we don't let pilots off proper training because they can't afford it...

nzkiwiman

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#1461480 5-Jan-2016 11:30

MikeB4: Driver training should be part of the school curriculum.

I got my learners at school.
Was part of the 'optional' classes, but when offered the vast majority of 6th form took the class and got their learners using this method

MikeB4

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#1461482 5-Jan-2016 11:34

Geektastic:
MikeB4: Driver training should be part of the school curriculum.

Not really - except in general terms. Part of the problem is that children ought not to be driving...!

We teach them Math, English, Latin but those subjects seldom kill, (Bronte sisters books the exception) but a huge percentage of school leavers drive and that does kill.

I also believe the driving test procedure needs changing.

1. Learners licence; should be valid for 6 months if no formal driver training started with in that time the licence is cancelled. If training started extended for a maximum 12 months.
2. Restricted licence; should be valid for 12 months, if full licence not obtained in that time the licence is cancelled and the procedure starts from the beginning.
3. The driving age should equal voting age.

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