Building out a new Media Center system, need recommendations..

Forums › Home Theatre (including HTPC and EPG Collector) › Building out a new Media Center system, need recommendations..

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1078 posts

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#1849589 21-Aug-2017 07:49

Check out the nvidia Shield as a client. It runs Android TV, supports usb peripherals (eg wireless keyboad and mouse, etc..) and is awesome!

davidcole

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#1849595 21-Aug-2017 08:05

Are you sure you need quad tuners? How often are you recording across all three transponders? (ie TVNZ/Mediaworks and Kordia - if that's what they're still called).

Unlike a sky box, most PC based PVR software will allow one tuner to record all the channels off a transponder. ie for TVNZ, that is tv1, tv2, tv1+1, tv2+1, duke while utilising only one tuner.

So to record off tv1 and tv3 would require 2 tuners (different transponders), but to record tv1, tv2 and tv3 at once would still only require 2 tuners.

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loryda

29 posts

Geek

#1849602 21-Aug-2017 08:12

davidcole:

Are you sure you need quad tuners? How often are you recording across all three transponders? (ie TVNZ/Mediaworks and Kordia - if that's what they're still called).

Unlike a sky box, most PC based PVR software will allow one tuner to record all the channels off a transponder. ie for TVNZ, that is tv1, tv2, tv1+1, tv2+1, duke while utilising only one tuner.

So to record off tv1 and tv3 would require 2 tuners (different transponders), but to record tv1, tv2 and tv3 at once would still only require 2 tuners.

I was not aware of that. Essentially dual tuners would work then i think. Any suggestions on hardware?

davidcole

6034 posts

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#1849603 21-Aug-2017 08:15

loryda:

davidcole:

Are you sure you need quad tuners? How often are you recording across all three transponders? (ie TVNZ/Mediaworks and Kordia - if that's what they're still called).

Unlike a sky box, most PC based PVR software will allow one tuner to record all the channels off a transponder. ie for TVNZ, that is tv1, tv2, tv1+1, tv2+1, duke while utilising only one tuner.

So to record off tv1 and tv3 would require 2 tuners (different transponders), but to record tv1, tv2 and tv3 at once would still only require 2 tuners.

I was not aware of that. Essentially dual tuners would work then i think. Any suggestions on hardware?

HDHomeRun. Little dearer than a PCI based one. But so flexible. You could move your PVR software to a Virtual machine (helps for backups/redundancy), or have the tuners removed from the computer - ie in another room. Plus they have apps for viewing live tv direct on devices now + supported by NextPVR/MediaPortal/Plex/Emby (I'd expect). They have their own DVR also (but I've no experience with it). Nicegear sell them for NZ.

Benoire

2798 posts

Uber Geek

#1849611 21-Aug-2017 08:38

I was going to say HD Homerun network tuner, feeding a TVheadend or other software. You can then feed that in to Kodi on any platform that has the performance requirements for HD TV.

I personally use a Sat>IP converter (4 DVB-S2 tuners) feeding a virtualised TVH installation that feeds Kodi platforms; moving to AndroidTV though probably with the nVidia Shield as that can also run Kodi but it has a native TVheadend client as well.

loryda

29 posts

Geek

#1849841 21-Aug-2017 14:13

davidcole:

loryda:

davidcole:

Are you sure you need quad tuners? How often are you recording across all three transponders? (ie TVNZ/Mediaworks and Kordia - if that's what they're still called).

Unlike a sky box, most PC based PVR software will allow one tuner to record all the channels off a transponder. ie for TVNZ, that is tv1, tv2, tv1+1, tv2+1, duke while utilising only one tuner.

So to record off tv1 and tv3 would require 2 tuners (different transponders), but to record tv1, tv2 and tv3 at once would still only require 2 tuners.

I was not aware of that. Essentially dual tuners would work then i think. Any suggestions on hardware?

HDHomeRun. Little dearer than a PCI based one. But so flexible. You could move your PVR software to a Virtual machine (helps for backups/redundancy), or have the tuners removed from the computer - ie in another room. Plus they have apps for viewing live tv direct on devices now + supported by NextPVR/MediaPortal/Plex/Emby (I'd expect). They have their own DVR also (but I've no experience with it). Nicegear sell them for NZ.

HDHomeRun sounds like the go.

Sorry, few more questions to wrap my head around it all.. Please correct me if i am wrong in my thinking.

HDHomeRun connects to the LAN and sends signal via DLNA to the Plex Media Server, which will be running on a NUC.
- Plex with PlexPass can handle DVR functions so do i need NextPVR or similar?
- How does Plex Server communicate with the HDHomeRun Box to change channels etc? (sorry, bit confused around this)
- How does the EPG data get transferred to Plex Server?

Because Plex will be required to occasionally trans-code multiple 1080p streams at once im led to believe minimum CPU requirements would be i7 2.5ghz dual core or equivalent.
- This seems pretty beefy. Is this really required?
- If yes, then i would go with something like Intel NUC BOXNUC7i7BNH (https://www.pbtech.co.nz/product/BPCINT3431470/Intel-NUC-BOXNUC7i7BNH-Mini-Computer-Kit-i7-7567U) Will obviously have to add Windows, RAM and HDD to this.. Seems pricey..
- Alternatively, would there be any downside besides power consumption to running a refurb business machine as it will be hiding in the Study room anyway? (http://www.trademe.co.nz/computers/desktops/no-monitor/auction-1395266346.htm)

Am thinking the best solution to provide ease of use for the Lounge Client is another much lower spec NUC (https://www.pbtech.co.nz/product/MBDINT2974234/Intel-NUC-Mini-PC-Desktop-Kit-with-Braswell-Celero).
Thoughts behind this..
- Can easily use the Harmony One,
- can also easily use a keyboard and mouse,
- can run a dedicated Netflix or similar task to bring up their respective apps from the harmony remote,
- easy to hide behind the TV on the wall mount.

Good idea?

I am undecided about what clients to use for the other TVs (Bedroom, Study & Garage). Something cheaper would be good but still needs to be easy to use.

xyf

300 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1849848 21-Aug-2017 14:38

Hey mate, i have just been through this whole process more or less and you have it mostly ok except i would seriously just use an android tv as the front end. I use a mi box but if i had a bit more cash would have gone with the shield. I also use nextpvr with tuner cards but would 100% go with hdhomerun which it sounds like you are doing.

Otherwise i use emby, have an i5 gen4 which transcodes everything just fine, 14gbs ram, 240gbs ssd for main drive and just a 1tb for the storage drive. Also run Sonarr to auto download tvshows which feed into emby. My only real gripe is that livetv is still a bit hit and miss, im going to ethernet up the android tv box to see if that helps but we hardly use live tv so its not high on the list. Most of the shows auto download from the internet tbh. Because emby works so well (same as plex) i find we actually watch more stuff on the ipad and phones than we used too. Its available worldwide.

Like someone else mentioned it is a totally different landscape now, everything is app-i-fied and you end up flicking in and out, with the android tv you can always just chromecast anything else over too.

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davidcole

6034 posts

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#1849864 21-Aug-2017 15:22

loryda:
- Plex with PlexPass can handle DVR functions so do i need NextPVR or similar?

It does have DVR functions. I've found it a little immature regarding it's EPG as this is sourced from Gracenote - and tend to have a few holes - see below in your question about the EPG.

loryda:

- How does Plex Server communicate with the HDHomeRun Box to change channels etc? (sorry, bit confused around this)

Just does?? I believe the HDHomeRun has an api for choosing a broadcast stream. So a transponder (there are 3 of these in NZ) has multiple channels on each. Technically, there's no channel changing involved, the HDHomerun just knows how to isolate a single channel at a time.

The PVR software does need to be able to deal with the multiple channels on a transponder. I know NextPVR and MediaPortal do this - Id expect that tvheadend does.

Plex I'd assume not at this stage (in the same way windows media centre didn't).

loryda:
- How does the EPG data get transferred to Plex Server?

For using Plex as the DVR, it uses an online service called gracenote - they came from music identification. As yet I find their EPG quite full of holes. Missing programs and the like. It can also take a feed from a extracted EPG - as in there's a program you can run called the EPGCollector which will connect to the hdhomerun and extract the MHEG5 EPG feed in the broadcast stream. But with plex, this tend to misidentify a lot of shows as movies (means you can;t series link them).

Unfortunately I think you're in the wrong country to use Plex DVR exclusively.

loryda:

Because Plex will be required to occasionally trans-code multiple 1080p streams at once im led to believe minimum CPU requirements would be i7 2.5ghz dual core or equivalent.
- This seems pretty beefy. Is this really required?
- If yes, then i would go with something like Intel NUC BOXNUC7i7BNH (https://www.pbtech.co.nz/product/BPCINT3431470/Intel-NUC-BOXNUC7i7BNH-Mini-Computer-Kit-i7-7567U) Will obviously have to add Windows, RAM and HDD to this.. Seems pricey..
- Alternatively, would there be any downside besides power consumption to running a refurb business machine as it will be hiding in the Study room anyway? (http://www.trademe.co.nz/computers/desktops/no-monitor/auction-1395266346.htm)

Am thinking the best solution to provide ease of use for the Lounge Client is another much lower spec NUC (https://www.pbtech.co.nz/product/MBDINT2974234/Intel-NUC-Mini-PC-Desktop-Kit-with-Braswell-Celero).
Thoughts behind this..
- Can easily use the Harmony One,
- can also easily use a keyboard and mouse,
- can run a dedicated Netflix or similar task to bring up their respective apps from the harmony remote,
- easy to hide behind the TV on the wall mount.

Good idea?

I am undecided about what clients to use for the other TVs (Bedroom, Study & Garage). Something cheaper would be good but still needs to be easy to use.

Hard to quantify this. There's a difference between a media client - which you were first talking about, and now a plex media server. They have very different requirements......though most clients that would connect to plex are able to handle 1080p h.264 video, so the need to transcode is a little less (and broadcast streams are just a 1080i h2.64 video file, so you could run plex server on your NUC. But you might be better served with Kodi (which I believe there is a native Silicondust written hdhomerun add on for running the tuners). Unsure if it will perform recording duties though.

I have a pretty big server as my plex media center. And my next pvr machine is a virtual machine running on top. My lounge has an HTPC (which is rarely used tbh) and an apple tv 4. A 2nd tv has a roku 3. Neither of these cause much sweat on the Plex Server to get 1080 i streamed from plex - sourced from nextpvr. When I stream to my phone, while outside my lan, is when most of the transcoding happens.

My personal preference is any device with a remote that can run plex is a better experience than an HTPC. And whern I used to use an HTPC full time, I had an infrared remote to control it. But any ondemand systems/netflix etc were browser based and not keyboard aware - they're mouse driven, so I really didn't like it. Which is why I'd prefer a "proper" media client. Again my IMO.

fe31nz

1231 posts

Uber Geek

#1850059 21-Aug-2017 22:44

davidcole:

Are you sure you need quad tuners? How often are you recording across all three transponders? (ie TVNZ/Mediaworks and Kordia - if that's what they're still called).

Unlike a sky box, most PC based PVR software will allow one tuner to record all the channels off a transponder. ie for TVNZ, that is tv1, tv2, tv1+1, tv2+1, duke while utilising only one tuner.

So to record off tv1 and tv3 would require 2 tuners (different transponders), but to record tv1, tv2 and tv3 at once would still only require 2 tuners.

You are quite a bit behind the times if you think there are still only three transponders. There have been four transponders for some time now, and a fifth transponder has just gone live in the last few days. Here is the output of my latest scan of the transponders from Wharite:

[[Tuning to 530000 Hz]]
Apna Television;Kordia:530000:I999B999C0D0M64T2G32Y0:T:27500:501:0:0:0:1501:8746:34:0
Al Jazeera;Kordia:530000:I999B999C0D0M64T2G32Y0:T:27500:502:0:0:0:1502:8746:34:0
Shine TV;JDA:530000:I999B999C0D0M64T2G32Y0:T:27500:503:0:0:0:6002:8746:34:0
TVSN Shopping;Kordia:530000:I999B999C0D0M64T2G32Y0:T:27500:504:0:0:0:1504:8746:34:0
TV29;Kordia:530000:I999B999C0D0M64T2G32Y0:T:27500:505:0:0:0:1505:8746:34:0
Radio NZ National;Kordia:530000:I999B999C0D0M64T2G32Y0:T:27500:506:0:0:0:1507:8746:34:0
Hope Channel;Kordia:530000:I999B999C0D0M64T2G32Y0:T:27500:507:0:0:0:1506:8746:34:0
HGTV;Kordia:530000:I999B999C0D0M64T2G32Y0:T:27500:508:0:0:0:1508:8746:34:0
NCTV-Chinese;Kordia:530000:I999B999C0D0M64T2G32Y0:T:27500:509:0:0:0:1509:8746:34:0
[[Tuning to 562000 Hz]]
Three;Mediaworks:562000:I999B999C0D0M64T2G32Y0:T:27500:450:410;410:0:0:1300:8746:31:0
Bravo;Mediaworks:562000:I999B999C0D0M64T2G32Y0:T:27500:451:0:0:0:1307:8746:31:0
ThreePlus1;Mediaworks:562000:I999B999C0D0M64T2G32Y0:T:27500:452:0:0:0:1302:8746:31:0
Bravo PLUS 1;Mediaworks:562000:I999B999C0D0M64T2G32Y0:T:27500:456:0:0:0:1308:8746:31:0
The Edge TV;Mediaworks:562000:I999B999C0D0M64T2G32Y0:T:27500:455:0:0:0:1305:8746:31:0
[[Tuning to 578000 Hz]]
TVNZ 1;TVNZ:578000:I999B999C0D0M64T2G32Y0:T:27500:270:421;421:0:0:1200:8746:27:0
TVNZ 2;TVNZ:578000:I999B999C0D0M64T2G32Y0:T:27500:271:422;422:0:0:1201:8746:27:0
TVNZ DUKE;TVNZ:578000:I999B999C0D0M64T2G32Y0:T:27500:274:0:0:0:1205:8746:27:0
TVNZ 1 +1;TVNZ:578000:I999B999C0D0M64T2G32Y0:T:27500:272:0:0:0:1206:8746:27:0
TVNZ 2 +1;TVNZ:578000:I999B999C0D0M64T2G32Y0:T:27500:273:0:0:0:1207:8746:27:0
[[Tuning to 594000 Hz]]
[0578];:594000:I999B999C0D0M64T2G32Y0:T:27500:550:0:0:0:1400:8746:33:0
Parliament;Kordia:594000:I999B999C0D0M64T2G32Y0:T:27500:551:0:0:0:1401:8746:33:0
ChineseTV;Kordia:594000:I999B999C0D0M64T2G32Y0:T:27500:553:0:0:0:1403:8746:33:0
PRIME;Kordia:594000:I999B999C0D0M64T2G32Y0:T:27500:554:0:0:0:1404:8746:33:0
ChoiceTV;Kordia:594000:I999B999C0D0M64T2G32Y0:T:27500:556:0:0:0:1407:8746:33:0
[0581];:594000:I999B999C0D0M64T2G32Y0:T:27500:557:0:0:0:1409:8746:33:0
Firstlight;Kordia:594000:I999B999C0D0M64T2G32Y0:T:27500:558:0:0:0:1414:8746:33:0
[[Tuning to 610000 Hz]]
Maori Television;Kordia:610000:I999B999C0D0M64T2G32Y0:T:27500:360:0:0:0:1600:8746:35:0
Te Reo;Kordia:610000:I999B999C0D0M64T2G32Y0:T:27500:361:0:0:0:1601:8746:35:0
[3e80];:610000:I999B999C0D0M64T2G32Y0:T:27500:362:0:0:0:16000:8746:35:0
[3e81];:610000:I999B999C0D0M64T2G32Y0:T:27500:363:0:0:0:16001:8746:35:0

The latest change is to move Maori Television and Te Reo to the new 610000 Hz transponder so they have enough bandwidth to be broadcast in HD. Previously, the 530000 Hz transponder was added and Radio NZ National was moved to there and a number of new channels added, particularly HGTV and Al Jazeera. I have three DVB-T tuners and have clashes on several days a week when I am recording from TVNZ, TV3, ChoiceTV or Prime and HGTV at the same time. Fortunately, ChoiceTV and HGTV repeat most programmes at least three times so I can record a later repeat on one of those channels. But now that Maori TV has also moved, I may well run out of tuners if I want to record from there too - I am looking at adding a fourth tuner.

Handle9

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#1850060 21-Aug-2017 22:50

I'm running NextPVR as the server solution with Kodi as the front end on Fire TVs. I've skipped tuners and I'm 100% IP based recording streams. It works charm thanks to @Apsattv and Matt Huismann and appears to be 100% legal.

With Netflix and Plex I'm pretty well covered for non-sport entertainment.

davidcole

6034 posts

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#1850122 22-Aug-2017 06:35

fe31nz:
davidcole:

Are you sure you need quad tuners? How often are you recording across all three transponders? (ie TVNZ/Mediaworks and Kordia - if that's what they're still called).

Unlike a sky box, most PC based PVR software will allow one tuner to record all the channels off a transponder. ie for TVNZ, that is tv1, tv2, tv1+1, tv2+1, duke while utilising only one tuner.

So to record off tv1 and tv3 would require 2 tuners (different transponders), but to record tv1, tv2 and tv3 at once would still only require 2 tuners.

You are quite a bit behind the times if you think there are still only three transponders. There have been four transponders for some time now, and a fifth transponder has just gone live in the last few days. Here is the output of my latest scan of the transponders from Wharite:

Ah yeah it seems I am. Shows how much I actually use my box now. I tend to go ip based and on demand, will do so almost full time when (if?) tvnz goes Apple TV app.

Depends on your recording profile I guess...and if you can supplant it with +1 channels, ip tv it's still pretty possible.

xyf

300 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1850143 22-Aug-2017 08:36

@handle9

I was thinking of doing that, do you have recording going and everything? series recording? epg too? Since we have 100mbit fibre we can run basically everything streamed no problem.

rb99

3423 posts

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#1850156 22-Aug-2017 09:13

xyf:

@handle9

I was thinking of doing that, do you have recording going and everything? series recording? epg too? Since we have 100mbit fibre we can run basically everything streamed no problem.

Am trying out that apsattv stuff in Emby at the moment, seems to be working OK. Not sure if you mentioned you tried m3u stuff in Emby as well (can't remember who posted what where to be honest). Just added matt wotshisname's combined au/nz xml guide and mapped the channels yesterday - not bad. Don't think m3u does Prime yet though ?

Also Emby chaps are trying to get rid of the NextPVR plug-in and improve it so it direct stream which will help, though its a bit in-progress at the moment (unless you know this already).

“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

rb99

xyf

300 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1850163 22-Aug-2017 09:22

I have tried a before but without much luck. I might give it another go now, choicetv has on demand too so i guess could add that too somehow. Im not sure why the govt just doesnt make a freeview iptv solution for any geo ip's from nz to access

xyf

300 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1850181 22-Aug-2017 09:51

ok so turns out its pretty solid to just add the m3u to emby, with xml for epg source. Just adding the other channels that are not in there (prime/choice/hgtv) from the dvbt source via nextpvr

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