Cat53 for AV / IR?

Forums › Home Theatre (including HTPC and EPG Collector) › Cat53 for AV / IR?

1 | 2 | 3

9058 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Subscriber

#156579 13-Aug-2008 14:18

Really there needs to be some field terminateable hdmi walljacks made so that you dont have to dick around pulling preterminated ones thru the wall, and even then, you still have distance and other limitations.

+1

One day the world will realise that HDMI is not a good connection, fine in the 1-5m situation, but simply not robust enough.

Roll on TVs with built in DVB decoders that support IPTV over ethernet. Extrapolate that, just like the cable networks in the US have done, make this mandetory DVB decoder (that may have optional S,C and T tuners) it can seamlessly operate with various CA systems, ie NDS, so you dont need an extra Sky decoder, just a card from Sky. This TV has media client features, Sky provides media server features via ethernet on their box, woops wakes up finds its 2100.

Cyril

Brunzy

2016 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#156644 13-Aug-2008 17:09

[

Really there needs to be some field terminateable hdmi walljacks made so that you dont have to dick around pulling preterminated ones thru the wall, and even then, you still have distance and other limitations.

There are plates available with punchdown connections on the back for Cat5E,tested one briefly over approx 10m cat5,seemed ok.

richms

28172 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#156647 13-Aug-2008 17:22

Do you have a URL for them? I was under the impression that HDMI was a totally different cable type to cat5/6 which is why there was some electronics in the converters rather then a straight adapter.

Richard rich.ms

cyril7

9058 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Subscriber

#156651 13-Aug-2008 17:39

I believe you may have been mistaken, an HDMI connector is only available as a ultrasonic termination unfortunately. Due to the performance requirements to get a reasonable data rate out of twisted pair the tolerances of the cable and connectors is such that hand assembly is pretty much out of the question.

Cyril

Brunzy

2016 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#156676 13-Aug-2008 19:29

richms: Do you have a URL for them? I was under the impression that HDMI was a totally different cable type to cat5/6 which is why there was some electronics in the converters rather then a straight adapter.

No,sorry,
One of my suppliers asked me to test it for him.
No idea where he got it from.

Cyril,

It was an HDMI socket @front with a puchdown block @ the back connected to it,two cat 5's.

I was sceptical myself,but I hooked it up/Zinwell DVB-T to Projector,ran it for one night,no real issues.

kevthesparky

79 posts

Master Geek

#156695 13-Aug-2008 20:45

Hi As Cyril Said do not use cat 5 for rf distribution it is not designed for it If you are renovating you need to run the appropriate cable for the job the only system that uses data type cable is a lexcon system and this is very expensive and cr*p if you ask me.
Baluns are expensive and yes you can get cheap one's but you get what you pay for.

Total av distribution systems if you are interested with recessed enclosures include Clipsal Starserv, Vynco, Hills Home Hub in my opinion if you are trying to do this yourself you will have better luck completing the job with the hills home hub. This is a rather easy system to install and also has the ability to include an IR distribution system. You could look at getting a bare enclosure and sourcing the contents yourself for IR you could try http://activetechnologies.org/controlplus/index.html I have installed these systems and they are fantastic LCD/Plasma friendly etc. the hills has a completly patchable system including the phone hub which can be pached into your system via normal patch leeds.

it will also be cheaper for you to fit off an rj45 outlet and purchase an Rj45 to bt adaptor total $17-20 as opposed to a proper bt phone mech which will set you back about $32+

there is so much you can do with a patchable system I am working on a spec home at the moment and I have run in nearly 50 cat5e cables and run in multiple quadshield rg6. It pays to plan ahead as you dont always get the chance to renovate.

kevthesparky

79 posts

Master Geek

#156698 13-Aug-2008 20:52

I know of the hdmi wall plates you are talking about they require 2 cat5e cables to be run and for memory one of the wall outlets require a PSU to plug in. The distance is not that great though. you can get HDMI BAluns which also require 2 cat5 cables to work but there distance is somthing like 50m which is pretty good if you ask me I tend to not run hdmi over 10m.

AliExpress

Shop now on AliExpress (affiliate link).

cyril7

9058 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Subscriber

#156710 13-Aug-2008 21:16

OK Brunzy, like Richard I understood most HDMI to Cat5 converters had active electronics, well all the ones I have seen have had, would be keen to know where your source got them.

Kev, a RJ45 to BT socket adaptor set should set you back around $3-4 trade at your local wholesaler.

Cyril

sbiddle

30853 posts

Uber Geek

Retired Mod

Trusted

Biddle Corp

Lifetime subscriber

#156713 13-Aug-2008 21:20

kevthesparky:

it will also be cheaper for you to fit off an rj45 outlet and purchase an Rj45 to bt adaptor total $17-20 as opposed to a proper bt phone mech which will set you back about $32+

Why even bother with BT at all? All phones have RJ11 plugs on them, just use a RJ11-RJ11 cable to go from the RJ45 socket in the wall to the phone. Saves having an untidy adapter plugged into the wall.

kevthesparky

79 posts

Master Geek

#156723 13-Aug-2008 21:40

Cyril - I was meaning the rj45 socket on it's own plus the rj45 to bt adaptor. Trade prices out of pdl book
Some phones when purchased do not come with a rj11 to rj11 but do have a bt lead and we need to cater for the masses as most of the time we do not know what the client has in the way of phones and we can not continually go back to a clients house to plug there phone in for them. To many jobs and not enough tradesmen so to speak

richms

28172 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#156742 13-Aug-2008 22:45

Last time I looked at the starserve and homehubs they were stuck in the 80s with mono modulated outputs, or in the case of one of them (Think it was the clipsal) they relied on you having modulators in your skybox, and just combining it with the antenna feed - guarenteed crap-tastic pictures since there's no filtering of the incoming antenna feed to free up a channel for the modulated output.

Yeah, they are a pretty tidy way to put a small switch onto your cat5/6 cabling, but the idea that you can put your router in them is IMPO stupid, since they will then have the wireless antenna contained within a metal box, also they have no provision for an adsl filter in them, no easy way of patching a pstn line from an ata back thru the house.

A forward looking company would have some power over ethernet support for remote accesspoints, a built in adsl filter, and probably several other things that I have yet to think of, but certainly the clipsal and hills sytems are underwhelmingly craptastic for what you get for the money. Im thinking most of their sales are to suckers building a new house who are told they are buying smart wiring so they are set for the future etc...

Richard rich.ms

stuzzo

534 posts

Ultimate Geek

#156840 14-Aug-2008 11:04

There's a couple of HDMI solutions in the States that use intermediary round connectors to allow for easier running of HDMI cables. One is TrippLite and RapidRun is another. Maybe similar solutions will make their way here, not that it allows you to just pull cable off a drum ,of course.

cyril7

9058 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Subscriber

#156848 14-Aug-2008 11:20

Hi Kev, Steve, as you point out ditch the BT's, infact PTC106 recommend this, and I agree totally. Kev, PDL 619MD has a tradelist price (according to the issue64 PDL price guide) of $14.70, this includes the PDL>Keystone clip (619MKC) that sells seperately for $1.45.

From my observation these PDL keystones are of no better supply source or quality as other Yum Char brand ones such as the SigTech keystone jacks that sell for around $2.70. I would not use these on a commerical installation instead I would use Krone or Tyco, but for domestic they are more than adequate.

So,

619MKC clip, $1.45,
SigTech Keystone RJ45, $2.70
Sigtech RJ45>BT adaptor lead $3.50: Total $7.65

This is compared to a PDL 617M2 BT module which lists at $33.80. I dont know why the extreame cost, there must be a royalty in there somewhere.

both solutions still require a mech plate $7.45

As for RJ45>BT adaptor leads, I no longer use them unless I have run out of RJ45>RJ11 line cords, these can be purchased for around $3-5 or I make my own, 2min work.

Edit:
Richard, I totally agree about the Hills home hub, they are actually very underwhelming. biggest issue aside of the RF modulation aspect in this day and age is they only support 8 data points, although you can expand them they are expensive. Hence I normlly go for the wall rack mount or the ST2000 which will take a 19" 1U patch panel, plus other items. I am just about to commercialise the phone patch panel that I demonstrated some months ago, it fits inside most inwall cabinets (ST2000/hills) or just over a normal flush box beside a wall mounting rack cabinet. It integrates all features including central ADSL filter, security loop, allowance for home gateway/voip options etc.

Cyril

djaggar

78 posts

Master Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#156860 14-Aug-2008 12:19

cyril7: Seems a bit silly to be entering the age of HDTV, installing wiring in a new home (or renovation) and we are talking composite video (or S-Video) distribution or RF modualted composite.

Cyril

Are you implying there is an alternative?

Dave

cyril7

9058 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Subscriber

#156884 14-Aug-2008 13:42

Hi, yes outside of Sky you can do media serving, this has each AV device with its own mpeg decoder. Within the Sky system multiroom. Oneday Sky I am sure will offer media server funtionality, be a while I suspect. Other than that there is HDMI or Component distribution, but not really satisfactory.

Cyril

1 | 2 | 3