What's Happening to Non VOLTE devices with the impending 3G shutdown

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#3361789 7-Apr-2025 17:43

One of Australias non-standard requirements was that any device that got voice service could make an emergency call on any network successfully.

Absurd to expect vendors of data connections to enforce that sort of ridiculous requirement but that's Aussie for you. And leaving it to the companies with an interest in selling you a new device to decide if your old one would still work was just the icing on the moronic decisions.

They were also blocking by IEMI ranges, so a phone not sold by a telco but compatible would get blacklisted on that network but be fine on others.

Over here I expect it will be just like when you are in a RCG areas and cant make a call because there is only LTE available to you.

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#3361791 7-Apr-2025 18:43

SomeoneSomewhere:

IIRC part of the reason the Australians did what they did is there were some phones that supported VoLTE for normal calls but emergency calls would fall back to 3G, and fail if that was unavailable. That's a pretty major risk and one that's hard to find out ahead of time without actually calling an emergency number with 3G disabled.

I'm glad I just recently updated my Spark prepaid phone - the new one supports VoLTE (the old one didn't).

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#3361800 7-Apr-2025 19:54

tripper1000:

LTE design was the shambles - a data-only network for tables and computers not phones.

Getting off-topic, but maybe people will use generic VOIP providers in future and completely ignore the network provided voice services. More established as a world-wide standard(ish) and better for portability, features and roaming. (I guess this has already happened with SMS - people use a plethora of apps to avoid expensive MMS charges and also for better features).

Moving from circuit-switched (telephony first) to packet switched (data first) seems reasonable enough. VoIP has been around for decades and is solid enough technology.

The issue IMHO is that they needed to:

a) define some bare-minimum level of automatic compatibility into the VoLTE/LTE standards so that emergency calls (preferably all calls) are guaranteed to work regardless of device origin

b) (nice to have) provide autoconfiguration (lots of VoIP phones autoconfigure via DHCP and a provisioning server) and/or manual configuration (a la APNs) to allow even off-network devices to use voice

c) (nice to have) not let the lack of the above drag on so long after VoLTE was standardised and promulgated.

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#3361801 7-Apr-2025 19:54

richms:

One of Australias non-standard requirements was that any device that got voice service could make an emergency call on any network successfully.

Absurd to expect vendors of data connections to enforce that sort of ridiculous requirement but that's Aussie for you

Sounds like a pretty reasonable requirement to me. I don't think there's any data-only 4G networks (not MVNOs) operating? So every network that owns towers has voice customers, and every voice customer deserves emergency service on any voice network (which is any hardware network).

And leaving it to the companies with an interest in selling you a new device to decide if your old one would still work was just the icing on the moronic decisions.

They were also blocking by IEMI ranges, so a phone not sold by a telco but compatible would get blacklisted on that network but be fine on others.

Over here I expect it will be just like when you are in a RCG areas and cant make a call because there is only LTE available to you.

Not the ideal way to go about it but it's pretty clearly a safety-first approach given there appears to be no way to tell whether a specific device will work fine or not - even "this device has made a VoLTE call recently" isn't sufficient if there's device/network combinations that can do VoLTE normal calls but not emergency.

IIRC we're deliberately under-powering 4G sites so they don't outrange the 3G sites for voice. I wouldn't hold my breath.

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#3361803 7-Apr-2025 20:33

SomeoneSomewhere:

Sounds like a pretty reasonable requirement to me. I don't think there's any data-only 4G networks (not MVNOs) operating? So every network that owns towers has voice customers, and every voice customer deserves emergency service on any voice network (which is any hardware network).

The voice portion is a forced bundle from the providers because that is how they have built their billing systems. Not everyone has the same requirements when buying services, and as a friend in aussie found out there remote tracking and telemetry devices that they had got LTE ones for a reason all got cut off, and they had to get some help from the asian based suppliers to re-identify them as a supported device in order to be able to use them for what they bought them for, which was nothing to do with making voice calls on them.

The small device in my bag that I check facebook on and use messenger and instagram and X to keep in touch with people also never gets used to make calls, I just am forced to buy unlimited voice and sms just to get a data connection on it. The thing could never make a phonecall again and I would be happy because the only calls it gets are either for the deadbeat who had the number before me who seems to owe someone money, or someone trying to scam me.

All they should have to do is advise people that this feature that you may or may not care about will not work anymore.

Richard rich.ms

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#3361811 7-Apr-2025 21:54

I thought you were saying that the requirement was on vendors of data connections. I'm pretty sure there are groups selling data-only sims - there are here.

I can see it being an issue on devices fundamentally unsuited to voice calls (trackers, laptops, whatever) but as soon as it has a 'make emergency call' button I can see a HSWA obligation to make it work.

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#3364388 15-Apr-2025 20:23

https://www.thepost.co.nz/business/360653377/phones-wont-work-after-3g-switch-still-sold-nz

Mobile phones that won’t be able to make calls on any New Zealand network next year are still being advertised for sale online, an industry body is warning.

Paul Brislen has not ruled out ‘naming and shaming’ a retailer still selling phones that rely on 3G, if advertisements aren’t removed soon.

I think he should! If people don't fully understand what's happening they could very easily get sucked in to buying something that will be worthless by the end of the year.

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#3364391 15-Apr-2025 20:31

On news talk tonight they talked about Tesla owners getting an email about the change and their car needs to be upgraded . The cost 4K to upgrade the car when 3G is shut down . Is that for real?

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#3364445 15-Apr-2025 21:01

Stu1:

On news talk tonight they talked about Tesla owners getting an email about the change and their car needs to be upgraded . The cost 4K to upgrade the car when 3G is shut down . Is that for real?

I was going to say that I wouldn't be surprised, but searching for "Telsa 3G" came up with

US: https://www.tesla.com/support/3g-cellular-network-retirement "This LTE modem upgrade is available for $200 USD plus applicable taxes and includes installation."
AU: https://www.tesla.com/en_au/support/3g-cellular-network-retirement "To maintain cellular connectivity after Telstra discontinues its 3G network, your vehicle will need an Infotainment Upgrade, which includes an LTE-capable modem." (upgrade price unspecified)

So it looks like they switched from just upgrading the modem, to forcing an infotainment upgrade, which assuming it's the same upgrade mentioned in https://www.tesla.com/en_nz/support/infotainment sounds like a mixed bag (loss of AM radio, pay extra to retain FM radio, etc).

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#3364544 16-Apr-2025 08:32

And yet another reason that buying a new car is a minefield.

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#3364640 16-Apr-2025 13:38

quickymart:

https://www.thepost.co.nz/business/360653377/phones-wont-work-after-3g-switch-still-sold-nz

Mobile phones that won’t be able to make calls on any New Zealand network next year are still being advertised for sale online, an industry body is warning.

Paul Brislen has not ruled out ‘naming and shaming’ a retailer still selling phones that rely on 3G, if advertisements aren’t removed soon.

I think he should! If people don't fully understand what's happening they could very easily get sucked in to buying something that will be worthless by the end of the year.

I agree. This retailer should be named and the phones identified.

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richms

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#3364647 16-Apr-2025 13:57

Im betting on it being one of the parallel importing type places with some xiaomi/redmi thing.

Richard rich.ms

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#3364759 16-Apr-2025 17:50

You should be covered by the CGA. Maybe we should go buy some of these phones, then demand replacements when they stop working!

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#3364808 16-Apr-2025 18:09

coffeebaron:

You should be covered by the CGA. Maybe we should go buy some of these phones, then demand replacements when they stop working!

I don't know if CGA covers if you "knowingly buy" a phone that doesn't work and then demand a refund / replacement

PB Tech were selling a Motorola which only had the 2degress profile on it, making it usless on Spark or One

also, some phones sold by Spark or One or 2Degrees wont necessarly work on the other two networks

I don't believe that there is a requirement for the phone to work all three networks

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#3364878 17-Apr-2025 06:57

"won’t be able to make calls on any New Zealand network" implies that they don't have VoLTE profiles for any network here. That's a different matter.

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