Burqa's in New Zealand

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#374467 30-Aug-2010 12:10

I'm sorry NonprayingMantis could you please quote me on where it says or dictates that Christianity has these rules and beliefs applied? They are two very different religions..

And the Koran and the bible are completely different books, their beliefs are in a different God and that comment has no relevance whatsoever..

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billgates

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#374472 30-Aug-2010 18:20

cgrew: I'm sorry NonprayingMantis could you please quote me on where it says or dictates that Christianity has these rules and beliefs applied? They are two very different religions..

And the Koran and the bible are completely different books, their beliefs are in a different God and that comment has no relevance whatsoever..

actually christians and muslims believe in the same god but both do not agree on the messenger sent by god. jesus vs mohammad.

Do whatever you want to do man.

cgrew

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#374705 31-Aug-2010 09:24

meesham:
cgrew: Interesting point meesham, I understand that NZ is a multi-cultural country but there are certain instances where their relegion may interfer with NZ's society, in this case it would be wearing Burqas in public.

How many Burqa wearing people do you know though? Because in actual fact they don't just wear them because they 'choose' to. From childhood they are forced to wear them, and would go as far as to say that they choose to wear them in their cultures defence.

Below is a quote from their bible or Koran

2) Muslim wives are to be totally dependent and obedient to their husbands.

Qur'an 4:34 Men are the maintainers of women, with what Allah (God) has made some of them to excel others and with what they spend out of their wealth. So the good women are obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded. And those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the beds and chastise them. So if they obey you, seek not a way against them.

This is just one small example of our woman must be obedient to men but If you have a read of the Koran, throughtout their bible it quite clearly states that the woman must be unseen, hidden, obey and thay are pretty much dictated to by men.

personally I believe that people should just be good to one another and live their life.

Agreed, well said.

cgrew

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#374709 31-Aug-2010 09:30

billgates:
cgrew: I'm sorry NonprayingMantis could you please quote me on where it says or dictates that Christianity has these rules and beliefs applied? They are two very different religions..

And the Koran and the bible are completely different books, their beliefs are in a different God and that comment has no relevance whatsoever..

actually christians and muslims believe in the same god but both do not agree on the messenger sent by god. jesus vs mohammad.

Somehow I don't think Muslims and Christians would agree on this..

Handsomedan

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#374716 31-Aug-2010 09:44

I think Batman should be forced to show his face.

It works for Superman.

I'm not going to get into the debate, but I think Linuxlover had a good point a page ago.

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cgrew

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#374732 31-Aug-2010 10:04

Haha Batman can't let the Joker know his true identity ;)

Asmodeus

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#374771 31-Aug-2010 11:16

With regards to hiding one's face, I believe that is legal. You are allowed to walk down the street wearing a balaclava or a ski mask for example. People may run away but it's still legal

NonprayingMantis

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#374899 31-Aug-2010 14:42

cgrew: I'm sorry NonprayingMantis could you please quote me on where it says or dictates that Christianity has these rules and beliefs applied? They are two very different religions..

sure. there are plenty of examples, but here are a couple

genesis 3:16
Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

1 Peter 3:1
Wives, be in subjection to your own husbands."

1Timothy 2:12
...suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Ephesians 5:23
Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

1Corinthians 14:34-35

Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

And the Koran and the bible are completely different books, their beliefs are in a different God and that comment has no relevance whatsoever..

well, no, their god is the same, the god of Abraham, they just believe he commanded and did different things.

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#374908 31-Aug-2010 14:53

Asmodeus: With regards to hiding one's face, I believe that is legal. You are allowed to walk down the street wearing a balaclava or a ski mask for example. People may run away but it's still legal

Sure,...and both of those garments have practical purposes, as do many things one might put over one's face.

But a purely religious garment to hide one's face? That gives a license to ANYONE to refuse to show their face....or do we then give preference to religious excuses over other excuses?

I say no excuses.

Show the world who you are and be accountable for what you do. Or stay inside.

Certainly, if requested, you should be required to remove any face covering when entering the domain of someone else....and I would suggest that very much includes the public domain we all *share*.

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kiwitrc

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#374910 31-Aug-2010 14:55

I found a competition for the best Burga in Wellington

Handsomedan

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#374917 31-Aug-2010 15:02

kiwitrc: I found a competition for the best Burga in Wellington

Them's some mighty fine lookin' Burgas.

With regard to the whole Burqa thing...personally, I have a bit of a problem with the fact that in predominantly Muslim countries, westerners are forced (most of the time) to adhere to the local traditions...i.e. women to be submissive, cover their hair, knees etc, while travellers from those countries believe that they should not be subevct to local customs, like uncovering the hair/face/knees etc.

Seems...well...a little one-sided, no?

Also - when entering a country with the intention of living there, maybe it might be a good idea to investigate the local culture beforehand then try to integrate, somewhat...rather than trying to bend the new country to your way of doing things (This is obviously a wider issue than just Burqas, though).

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cgrew

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#374934 31-Aug-2010 15:23

NonprayingMantis:
cgrew: I'm sorry NonprayingMantis could you please quote me on where it says or dictates that Christianity has these rules and beliefs applied? They are two very different religions..

sure. there are plenty of examples, but here are a couple

genesis 3:16
Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

1 Peter 3:1
Wives, be in subjection to your own husbands."

1Timothy 2:12
...suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Ephesians 5:23
Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

1Corinthians 14:34-35

Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

..

well, no, their god is the same, the god of Abraham, they just believe he commanded and did different things.

Most Muslims and Christians would tend to disagree with their God being the same but both religions do have that common factor, that men are more dominent over the women of course.

NonprayingMantis

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#374972 31-Aug-2010 16:01

cgrew:

Most Muslims and Christians would tend to disagree with their God being the same .

True, but then most Muslims and Christians (especially Christians it seems) actually know surprisingly little about there own religion.

NonprayingMantis

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#374973 31-Aug-2010 16:01

cgrew:

Most Muslims and Christians would tend to disagree with their God being the same .

True, but then most Muslims and Christians (especially Christians it seems) actually know surprisingly little about their own religion.

for example, how many christians do you suppose are aware of the fact that the bible actually has two very different sets of 'ten commandments'

cgrew

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#374984 31-Aug-2010 16:10

NonprayingMantis:
cgrew:

Most Muslims and Christians would tend to disagree with their God being the same .

for example, how many christians do you suppose are aware of the fact that the bible actually has two very different sets of 'ten commandments'

I am aware, and also there is the 'old' testament and the 'new' testament which are also very different..

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