Pluggable sockets on lighting circuit - like for like replacement

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gl33kles

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#302767 18-Dec-2022 18:08

A few months after buying our house and hunkering down for last winter we went for a look in our attic and found it seems to have once served as a grow room for some enterprising ex resident. No big shock as this is top-of-the-South. There are a couple of lights wired in and on the same circuit a couple of sockets, I guess for heat lamps or fans or whatever they'd have used.

I've given the wiring a tidy-up (proper mechanical protection, clips at appropriate intervals) so it's no longer a tripping hazard. The lights and sockets aren't inspiring confidence though so I'm planning to take a like-for-like approach to replace them with some good quality LEDs.

I'm confident in this work and will not be laying new circuits or anything that would contravene the electrical standard. Any such activities are going on my backlog for a sparky.

However, the LED options I'm eyeing up are all plug-in models which expect a 3-pin socket. Given that the wiring is all 1mm TPS - i.e. only suitable for lights and should never have been used for appliances - is it a dealbreaker for me to replace those with nice new PDL outlets so long as they ONLY EVER have lights plugged into them?

My instinct is that if I label the sockets with "LIGHTS ONLY" (a la the old "SHAVERS ONLY" sockets of old) then I'm doing things safely.

Obviously if that's not an option I'll need to "like for like" it with hard-wired lights and junction box off the sockets. Not great. Or else get a sparky in to replace the whole mess with 2.5mm TPS. NB: I'm also aware of the risk that past overloading of the circuit may have caused invisible damage; wearing that for now; also confident I'm within the allowable load limit.

TL;DR: I'm fully informed about what I can and cannot do legally. Exclusively from a safety point of view I'd like to know whether there is any risk of installing electrical sockets on a 1mm TPS circuit SO LONG AS only lights are ever plugged into these sockets.

Thanks in advice for your wise counsel.

Rikkitic

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#3011642 18-Dec-2022 18:27

I don't think it works the way you are suggesting. The electrical standard is pretty specific about what is and isn't allowed. It doesn't say you can do this if you promise not to do that. The risk is that your insurance may not cover you if you do something that isn't in the standard.

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shk292

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#3011648 18-Dec-2022 19:06

The strange thing is, half of the LED downlights for sale at Bunnings etc have plugs wired onto them and I had always assumed that this was so you could pay a sparky once to put sockets on the wiring for your old fittings, and then change out your fittings at your convenience. So it seems strange that if you wanted to do this, you'd have to get the wiring re-done first. Unless most lighting wiring is already at the right standard?

gregmcc

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#3011697 18-Dec-2022 19:31

gl33kles:

A few months after buying our house and hunkering down for last winter we went for a look in our attic and found it seems to have once served as a grow room for some enterprising ex resident. No big shock as this is top-of-the-South. There are a couple of lights wired in and on the same circuit a couple of sockets, I guess for heat lamps or fans or whatever they'd have used.

I've given the wiring a tidy-up (proper mechanical protection, clips at appropriate intervals) so it's no longer a tripping hazard. The lights and sockets aren't inspiring confidence though so I'm planning to take a like-for-like approach to replace them with some good quality LEDs.

I'm confident in this work and will not be laying new circuits or anything that would contravene the electrical standard. Any such activities are going on my backlog for a sparky.

However, the LED options I'm eyeing up are all plug-in models which expect a 3-pin socket. Given that the wiring is all 1mm TPS - i.e. only suitable for lights and should never have been used for appliances - is it a dealbreaker for me to replace those with nice new PDL outlets so long as they ONLY EVER have lights plugged into them?

My instinct is that if I label the sockets with "LIGHTS ONLY" (a la the old "SHAVERS ONLY" sockets of old) then I'm doing things safely.

Obviously if that's not an option I'll need to "like for like" it with hard-wired lights and junction box off the sockets. Not great. Or else get a sparky in to replace the whole mess with 2.5mm TPS. NB: I'm also aware of the risk that past overloading of the circuit may have caused invisible damage; wearing that for now; also confident I'm within the allowable load limit.

TL;DR: I'm fully informed about what I can and cannot do legally. Exclusively from a safety point of view I'd like to know whether there is any risk of installing electrical sockets on a 1mm TPS circuit SO LONG AS only lights are ever plugged into these sockets.

Thanks in advice for your wise counsel.

He is what the standards say, all socket MUST have an earth pin, my guess would be that the existing light circuit would not have an earth.

All newly added sockets MUST be RCD protected at the source of the addition (distribution board is likely point here), even if you are changing out a fixed wired light with a 3 pin socket it then MUST be RCD protected.

As far as the circuit protection (fuse/circuit breaker size) it must be rated to the wiring, if 1.0mm typically 6Amp, it does not matter what is on the end a socket or a light or whatever.

If you have rewirable fuses then there cannot be any additional sockets added without changing it to a circuit breaker.

Easiest way is the old Junction box/hard wired method, which is fine, but as a homeowner it MUST be checked by an inspector (not an electrician) before the circuit is turned on.

Bung

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#3011698 18-Dec-2022 19:34

gl33kles:
I'm confident in this work and will not be laying new circuits or anything that would contravene the electrical standard. Any such activities are going on my backlog for a sparky.

I would be concerned that the wiring in the attic already could be a problem. Even if it started as a legitimate lighting circuit adding sockets to it probably means that it has to be off an RCD. Has the previous owner taken other liberties?

wellygary

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#3011749 18-Dec-2022 20:55

shk292:

The strange thing is, half of the LED downlights for sale at Bunnings etc have plugs wired onto them and I had always assumed that this was so you could pay a sparky once to put sockets on the wiring for your old fittings, and then change out your fittings at your convenience. So it seems strange that if you wanted to do this, you'd have to get the wiring re-done first. Unless most lighting wiring is already at the right standard?

It's because Bunnings is Australian, and the rules on home wiring are considerably stricter over there. - so they will soec the manufacturer to ensure legality in both markets

- fairly sure you cannot replace light fittings legally ( like you can here) - hence the demand for lights on plugs that home owners can change themselves

gl33kles

2 posts

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#3011801 18-Dec-2022 21:36

shk292:

The strange thing is, half of the LED downlights for sale at Bunnings etc have plugs wired onto them and I had always assumed that this was so you could pay a sparky once to put sockets on the wiring for your old fittings, and then change out your fittings at your convenience. So it seems strange that if you wanted to do this, you'd have to get the wiring re-done first. Unless most lighting wiring is already at the right standard?

Thank you for summarising my exact confoundment in 3 sentences vs my rambling tale. And thanks for your 2c @wellygary, agree this seems likely the case. Bloody annoying in mine.

Re @Rikkitic and @Bung:

We've investigated the progeny of the situation and as best we can tell the likely perpetrator was a former tenant, a qualified (and reasonably respected) sparky (and reasonably renowned stoner) himself. No proof of this, so nothing to get the board excited about. But it looks like most of the "creative" wiring came about when the responsible party ripped stuff out before leaving, rather than due to an especially dodgy initial install (with the obvious exception of sockets being added to the lighting circuit). Therefore I have some confidence that this has been done "right", and it does appear to be earthed, but you're correct, I should take steps to be sure of that.

MadEngineer

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#3011811 18-Dec-2022 22:33

wellygary:
shk292:

The strange thing is, half of the LED downlights for sale at Bunnings etc have plugs wired onto them and I had always assumed that this was so you could pay a sparky once to put sockets on the wiring for your old fittings, and then change out your fittings at your convenience. So it seems strange that if you wanted to do this, you'd have to get the wiring re-done first. Unless most lighting wiring is already at the right standard?

It's because Bunnings is Australian, and the rules on home wiring are considerably stricter over there. - so they will soec the manufacturer to ensure legality in both markets

- fairly sure you cannot replace light fittings legally ( like you can here) - hence the demand for lights on plugs that home owners can change themselves

The standards are literally “ASNZ”. We share the same rule book.

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Bung

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#3011860 18-Dec-2022 22:56

The ability of NZ homeowners to do some electrical work is outlined in the NZ Regulations not the Standards. The Standards may be joint but there are some country specific clauses.

wellygary

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#3011892 19-Dec-2022 09:03

MadEngineer: The standards are literally “ASNZ”. We share the same rule book.

The standards specify "what to do" not "who can do it"

this is From QLD , and is vastly more restitutive than what a homeowner can do here.

https://www.electricalsafety.qld.gov.au/electrical-safety-home/dont-do-your-own-electrical-work

Not only is it breaking the law, but you could also jeopardise your insurance!

Changing powerpoints or light switches might seem simple, but unless you are trained and qualified, there are lots of risks you just won’t know about. Never attempt to do your own electrical work – you could kill or injure yourself or your family, or start a fire. Always use a licensed electrician

What is electrical work?

Under section 18 of the Electrical Safety Act 2002 (the Act), electrical work includes "the manufacturing, constructing, installing, testing, maintaining, repairing, altering, removing, or replacing of electrical equipment".

This covers tasks like:

installing a new power point
replacing a light switch
replacing a batten holder with a new light fitting
repairing an electrical appliance like a heater
altering the location of an existing power point
replacing a light fitting with a ceiling fan
constructing an extension lead
replacing a plug on the end of an extension lead.

deadlyllama

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#3011913 19-Dec-2022 09:43

A friend of mine who bought a similar set of lights just chopped the plugs off. I think he attached the cables to the existing lighting circuit with chocolateblock or similar.

shk292

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#3011916 19-Dec-2022 09:48

The most recent ones I bought had removable leads with 2-pin plugs, so you could either use these if you had sockets, or if you trust yourself to be able to connect two wires to a terminal block, just do that as a "like for like" replacement of the old incandescent fittings. Hardly rocket surgery

gregmcc

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#3012074 19-Dec-2022 17:24

shk292:

The most recent ones I bought had removable leads with 2-pin plugs, so you could either use these if you had sockets, or if you trust yourself to be able to connect two wires to a terminal block, just do that as a "like for like" replacement of the old incandescent fittings. Hardly rocket surgery

this is more than like for like.....

Tinkerisk

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#3012103 19-Dec-2022 19:43

gl33kles:

TL;DR: I'm fully informed about what I can and cannot do legally. Exclusively from a safety point of view I'd like to know whether there is any risk of installing electrical sockets on a 1mm TPS circuit SO LONG AS only lights are ever plugged into these sockets.

Leaving the regulations aside, it‘s a question of the load. Physically, it is 15A for a multi-core 1.0 mm cable routed outside the wall at room temperature. This also includes the apparent power, i.e. it is not only the active power of a conventional incandescent lamp with a cos phi = 1.0 that counts, but also the reactive power of electronic transformers or LEDs that you want to hang there.

I've been told that grass grower installations are rarely code compliant or smart, which could also have to do with the crop. In any case, such rooftop plantations burn down more often than average - and the firefighters love these operations. 😁

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gregmcc

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#3012110 19-Dec-2022 20:30

Tinkerisk:

gl33kles:

TL;DR: I'm fully informed about what I can and cannot do legally. Exclusively from a safety point of view I'd like to know whether there is any risk of installing electrical sockets on a 1mm TPS circuit SO LONG AS only lights are ever plugged into these sockets.

Leaving the regulations aside, it‘s a question of the load. Physically, it is 15A for a multi-core 1.0 mm cable routed outside the wall at room temperature. This also includes the apparent power, i.e. it is not only the active power of a conventional incandescent lamp with a cos phi = 1.0 that counts, but also the reactive power of electronic transformers or LEDs that you want to hang there.

I've been told that grass grower installations are rarely code compliant or smart, which could also have to do with the crop. In any case, such rooftop plantations burn down more often than average - and the firefighters love these operations. 😁

running some numbers, using 1mm cable at 15A, thermal insulation, partially surrounded you have already exceeded the capacity of the cable, if you went with enclosed in air you could get 7.43m, reality is the cable is in a wall at some point so that put's it partially surrounded.

Not directing this at the OP but this is why homeowners should not do electrical work, because they don't know understand all the other factors that go in to cable ratings.

At 7.43m it's not really a usable distance as you need to go from your distribution board to a switch some where and then to a light, your 7.43m will be used well before you get to the 1st light.

Doing it right at 6A partially surround, you will get 20.5m, much more usable.....

raytaylor

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#3012621 21-Dec-2022 06:30

Its common now to just have mains outlets so any lights can be plugged in or replaced by the end user.

Although an outlet is capable of 10 amps, and multiple outlets could be on the same TPS wire, the breaker will protect it as that is rated for the smallest capacity component - the 1mm tps wire.

Ray Taylor

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