Thoughts on a smoke detector for man cave located distant from house

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martinv

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#306559 3-Aug-2023 14:24

Hi ho. I have set up a man cave/space for 3D printing. I'd like to add smoke detection (aka smoke alarm), but I'm having a little trouble finding a solution. What I want as a minimum is that if the detector goes off in the man cave that I will hear about it in the house. If anyone has ideas I'd be interested.

The challenge is that:

1) The man cave is some distance from the house and I'm not willing to try an RF connected smoke alarm due to reliability. Hard-wired is what I'm after.

2) I want something reliable, so not relying on the internet, cloud servers in other countries, my phone, ... you get the idea.

I have multiple wire pairs available between the man cave and the house, so could use those. There is also an IP connection over fiber, ... but I deem it not reliable enough to use.

Scouting around on here I found references to a couple of Clipsal parts: https://eref.se.com/au/en/clipsal/product-pdf/755RFB2 and https://eref.se.com/au/en/clipsal/product-pdf/755RLPSMA4 but even looking at the data sheets it wasn't clear to me (not enough detail) as to whether you can 'just' wire a couple of detectors together in some way and have them both sound. One other option seems to be the Nest Protect, but that seems to be RF connect only. Cavius looked to be another possibility but despite apparently having wired models, when I looked on the website I couldn't find any.

Thoughts appreciated!

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meow
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#3111463 3-Aug-2023 15:13

I use the Nest Protect for exactly this. My Mancave is a little distance from the house. The Nest Protects do mesh but also have WiFi connectivity also. So I have 3x Nest Protect in the house and 1x in the Mancave and all work well together.

If I set the mancave one off the house screams too + I get a push notification to my phone.

Some real peace of mind considering I also have a 3D printer quite often running along with server gear etc running in the Mancave. Sure, they're expensive but IMHO I'd rather spend this for a solution that works (and is reliable) than a product that may not work when I need it to.

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tweake

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#3111514 3-Aug-2023 15:32

need to look at commercial wired smoke alarms and probably a heat detector. you can get domestic ones that are wired together so they all go off when one is tripped, just not sure on how long you can have the cables.

timmmay

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#3111516 3-Aug-2023 15:38

I wonder what the range of Cavius wireless smoke alarms is. I can't easily find it on their website.

RunningMan

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#3111530 3-Aug-2023 16:18

timmmay:

I wonder what the range of Cavius wireless smoke alarms is. I can't easily find it on their website.

RANGE: Maximum 100m in plain line of sight

https://www.cavius.co.nz/blog/product/2107-cav10wf/

SATTV

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#3111533 3-Aug-2023 16:28

We had a wired smoke alarm connected to our burglar alarm, this could be an option for you.

I dont think they are that expensive and as you have wiring it should not be too much of an issue.

The main assumption is that you have a house alarm.

John

I know enough to be dangerous

timmmay

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#3111534 3-Aug-2023 16:45

RunningMan: Maximum 100m in plain line of sight

Thanks 🙂 Shame my stupid house has walls interrupting the line of sight.

Senecio

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#3111535 3-Aug-2023 16:45

I also use Next Protect for the same reason as MichaelMurphy. I have 3 through the house including 1 in the garage. If one goes off they all go off including a push notification to the phone even when I'm not home. Not exactly what you asked for (wired) but do the job well.

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MarkM536

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#3111580 3-Aug-2023 19:36

Maybe this might fit the bill...? System Sensor '2012/24AUS Photoelectric Smoke-Alarm', SKU: PSA2012/24AUSI

It is a discontinued model, which may make it easier to find a non-trade reseller. https://pertronic.co.nz/products/discontinued-products/detectors-and-modules//product/96

(There's newer versions avaliable)

It's a reasonable voltage input range, has a backup 9v battery inside, can link multiple alarms and has relay contacts. You could use those relay contacts to switch power on the two wires back to your house with a siren at the end.

The relay could switch anything else within it's rated current.

Such as:

Couples of things to note about this wiring;

If the power fails it means your external siren would not work (only 9v battery backup would let the detector's siren function).
Typically wired systems in a fire alarm system or house alarm are 'normally closed' with a resistance. This means the system can tell if the detector is triggered or failure.

dasimpsonsrule

147 posts

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#3111641 3-Aug-2023 23:02

Here are some of the options I looked at for having monitored smoke sensors in my place:

AAP does cheapish 12V powered detectors with relay outputs, which can be wired into whatever you want. Only thing I didn't like about them was that they don't have an internal battery so if you lose the 12V power then no more smoke detector.
Most mains hardwired detectors support interlinking. The actual output is something like a 5V signal referenced to the neutral, so it is considered LV (mains) not SELV (<50V) and has to be run separately to data cables etc
The chipset used on most photoelectric detectors is very standard, and these chips almost always have an "interlink" connection, which is that same 5Vish signal from the mains ones but referenced to the circuit ground. If you are keen with soldering you can take any cheap alarm and hook the output into something
Smoke alarms from commercial fire panels. You want conventional 4 wire detectors, which have a separate power and output terminals. Conventional 2 wire, and analogue addressable ones seem to be harder to get going
Cavius Wireless sensors. I have built a device which can receive from these sensors, and from there you can do whatever you want. I like this way because anything I do can't affect the sensor operation, I'm just listening for any signals sent.

martinv

19 posts

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#3112446 6-Aug-2023 17:18

SATTV:

We had a wired smoke alarm connected to our burglar alarm, this could be an option for you.

I dont think they are that expensive and as you have wiring it should not be too much of an issue.

The main assumption is that you have a house alarm.

John

That's a great idea. I do have a house alarm that I could connect a wired smoke alarm into. That way I'd get a (reliable) alarm if I'm in the house, and since the house alarm is hooked in to Telegram, I'd also get (albeit less reliable) alarms if I'm not home. So I really only need one wired smoke detector. Cool.

martinv

19 posts

Geek

#3112447 6-Aug-2023 17:20

MarkM536:

Maybe this might fit the bill...? System Sensor '2012/24AUS Photoelectric Smoke-Alarm', SKU: PSA2012/24AUSI

It is a discontinued model, which may make it easier to find a non-trade reseller. https://pertronic.co.nz/products/discontinued-products/detectors-and-modules//product/96

(There's newer versions avaliable)

Cool. I'm going to see tomorrow if I can buy one of these!

martinv

19 posts

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#3117978 19-Aug-2023 16:02

Just to follow up in case anyone is interested, I now have a wired smoke alarm in my hands. It took a lot of perseverance. It turns out there is just one supplier in Christchurch. Even though my work has an account there and we have bought things on occasion for decades, the whole sale process was like pulling teeth. Anyway, all good now and I hope to get it installed soon. $172 all up, which, if you are OK with RF instead of wires makes the Nest Protest alternative look quite appealing.

I would be interested if there are other sources for wired smoke alarms in NZ where the sale process is straight forward.

The company Pertronic who look to be the importers gave me a number of installers in Christchurch including Chubb FIRE & Safety, FFP Canterbury and Argus Fire. They told me I should be going via one of those companies, but I could just see how that would go; I'm 99% certain they would want to come out and install a multi-thousand dollar system, if I could get them to come out at all; ... "you want one smoke alarm?"

Life's tough being a geek and knowing what you want to do and others just stand in your way LOL. Thanks all who replied.

Handle9

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#3117979 19-Aug-2023 16:09

Fire protection is a regulated industry.

In NZ the standards body consists of the large established domestic market fire protection manufacturers/importers. It results in a market where it’s pretty difficult to access for consumers and other manufacturers.

Disclaimer: I’ve been involved in taking our systems through the regulatory process for approval, it’s very difficult and expensive considering the size of the market. Obviously I have a conflict of interest with the way things are done.

michaelmurfy

meow
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#3117981 19-Aug-2023 16:14

@martinv Pretty expensive considering the Nest Protect has additional sensors and smarts to it also! Remember also the Nest Protect isn't RF only, it has WiFi too and never had any communication issues from the mancave to the house despite quite a big distance :)

Handle9

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#3117997 19-Aug-2023 17:20

michaelmurfy:
@martinv Pretty expensive considering the Nest Protect has additional sensors and smarts to it also! Remember also the Nest Protect isn't RF only, it has WiFi too and never had any communication issues from the mancave to the house despite quite a big distance :)

It’s a product typically supplied via an installer network. He’s likely paid “list” price which bears little resemblance to the actual market price. If it’s a detector suitable for commercial applications it’s likely also got that degree of overhead built in.

Pertronic manufacture panels in Lower Hutt but from memory no one makes detectors in NZ.

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