Why Electric Vehicle and Why Tesla

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Nj11

1 post

Wannabe Geek

#315154 18-Jun-2024 06:35

Hi all

We have been thinking about going electric. However, two very basic questions come to mind

Are there any real benefits in buying electric vehicles? After the latest ACC Levy, I have calculated that I will save around $40 per 1000 km. I am a conventional Auckland driver with work to home to kids's activities kind of drive. EVS still need WOF and the insurance is generally higher than traditional cars, which offsets any savings on servicing etc.
If there are any real benefits (including saving the environment), is Tesla better than other cheaper alternatives like BYD.

cheers

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557 posts

Ultimate Geek

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#3250231 18-Jun-2024 07:14

is Tesla better than other cheaper alternatives

I've never been in one, but the amount of build issue I've heard about coming from them, I'd never own one. Even their "older" models seem to have build issues. They also have lied repeatedly about their capabilities (self drive) and range. For some reason they seem to get a pass from a large sector of the public, or it's just really good marketing. Either way, I'd avoid them.

ZL2TOY/ZL1DMP

Dingbatt

6754 posts

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#3250233 18-Jun-2024 07:21

If you can charge at home then direct operating costs are slightly lower than a petrol hybrid. But now there are RUCs, if you have to use public chargers, it’s not a cost saving. Considering the higher purchase price it’s pretty difficult to justify getting an EV on financial grounds.

Environmentally, it’s up to you to judge.

As far as Teslas go (Model 3 owner), there are now other worthy options. BYD particularly offer cost competitive alternatives (with more to come). As an example, the BYD Seal is pretty much a M3 clone, but is cheaper with more equipment. Last time I checked insurance premiums, I could insure a brand new Seal Performance for the same premium as my 2 year old Model 3 RWD. The Seal does require annual servicing though. The just launched BYD Sealion 6 is a PHEV, but its soon to be joined by the BEV Sealion 7 (a direct Model Y competitor).

The major benefit spruiked in overseas reviews is the Supercharger network. Not so much in NZ where the cost is the same as other chargers and (currently) there aren’t enough SCs to make a difference. In my case, I don’t like just having the central screen (added an aftermarket HUD). Some of Teslas software updates have been great, others not so much. You don’t have a choice whether you accept them or not. The Model Y is a far more practical vehicle than the 3.

Notwithstanding the above, I own my EV because it is smooth and quiet and I enjoy driving it. I like not having to visit a petrol station and am willing to put up with the inconvenience of long ‘refuel times’ and limited range. Will I buy another Tesla? Probably not.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

kiwi_64

261 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#3250236 18-Jun-2024 07:42

Dingbatt:

If you can charge at home then direct operating costs are slightly lower than a petrol hybrid. But now there are RUCs, if you have to use public chargers, it’s not a cost saving. Considering the higher purchase price it’s pretty difficult to justify getting an EV on financial grounds.

Environmentally, it’s up to you to judge.

As far as Teslas go (Model 3 owner), there are now other worthy options. BYD particularly offer cost competitive alternatives (with more to come). As an example, the BYD Seal is pretty much a M3 clone, but is cheaper with more equipment. Last time I checked insurance premiums, I could insure a brand new Seal Performance for the same premium as my 2 year old Model 3 RWD. The Seal does require annual servicing though. The just launched BYD Sealion 6 is a PHEV, but its soon to be joined by the BEV Sealion 7 (a direct Model Y competitor).

The major benefit spruiked in overseas reviews is the Supercharger network. Not so much in NZ where the cost is the same as other chargers and (currently) there aren’t enough SCs to make a difference. In my case, I don’t like just having the central screen (added an aftermarket HUD). Some of Teslas software updates have been great, others not so much. You don’t have a choice whether you accept them or not. The Model Y is a far more practical vehicle than the 3.

Notwithstanding the above, I own my EV because it is smooth and quiet and I enjoy driving it. I like not having to visit a petrol station and am willing to put up with the inconvenience of long ‘refuel times’ and limited range. Will I buy another Tesla? Probably not.

What a well balanced, considered reply. Tip my hat

sen8or

1787 posts

Uber Geek

#3250244 18-Jun-2024 08:18

If you can charge at home and have a good plan (e.g. day/night rates) where you are only paying 15c +/- per KW, then a full charge is likely to be $7-10 or so for 250-350kms, add in RUCs $20-27) and you are looking at around $ 27 -37 per charge. I had a Jolion Hybrid that did 850kms on a 50l fill (cost $140 +/-), so $ 40 - 60 approx for similar range to the EV charge. So still a cost saving on what was a fairly efficient vehicle but how long would it take to recover the cost difference? Difficult to measure.

The cars now have to stack up on being able to compete in terms of ride quality, equipment, driver engagement (the feel good / buzz factor) and other benefits rather than simply cheaper to own.

I'm currently in a MG4 xpower, sure the power is fun from time to time, but ultimately, its a nice car to drive, quiet, smooth, has good creature comforts, the range is adequate (300 +/-) and the cabin is a nice place to be. Focus on how the car drives and makes you feel, then think about the financial and other factors.

gehenna

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#3250245 18-Jun-2024 08:29

Any of the Uber Tesla's I've been in seem fine but that's as a back seat passenger. Personally, I like the Polestar, BYD and Hyundai options I've tested. Those things you raise around cost, levies, clean car reimbursement not being there anymore, and the general vibe in media that EV is losing traction, are all connected, and they're all needed to make sure EV retains traction. Without those ancillary things the case is less compelling, which is probably what lobbyists for non-EV benefitting industries are banking.

DMWellington

30 posts

Geek

#3250301 18-Jun-2024 09:27

I've recently ordered my first EV (Tesla Model 3 Performance) coming from a high-performance Audi (RS3) which cost a pretty high premium in servicing and maintenance costs. For me there will likely be a moderate saving in fuel costs but a large saving in servicing costs. I think it somewhat depends on what you are coming from in the ICE world.

Why the Tesla? I wanted something with similar performance (The Tesla is quicker) to what I had but with the benefits of all the modern tech, quietness etc. At 50 something years old the rumble of a 5 cylinder engine waking the neighbours was getting a bit old haha.

myopinion

938 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3250302 18-Jun-2024 09:28

They (EVs) are far nicer to drive day to day than an ICE car. That's the starting point.

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myopinion

938 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3250304 18-Jun-2024 09:33

The other thing that I've really come to hate is paying money to rich oil nations for their product. If we all got rid of petrol cars and used our home grown electricity, how much money stays in NZ rather than goes overseas to those oil rich countries? I don't know the figure but it must be billions per year. That would be nice to have floating around our economy instead.

Obraik

2123 posts

Uber Geek

#3250318 18-Jun-2024 10:31

If you have the ability to charge at home or at work, then yes, an EV makes sense if there is one that fits your practical needs (eg size, range, etc) within your budget. With a decent power plan, you will still be saving money over an ICE vehicle. EVs, IMO, are just a better driving experience in general, especially when it comes to city driving - one pedal driving with regen means you're not managing two pedals, acceleration is generally rather zippy and smooth (in even the least performant EVs) and you're not dumping exhaust into the atmosphere sitting at the lights.

I've owned a Tesla Model 3 for 4 and a half years now and driven just shy of 111,000km on it. If I were to need to buy another car today, it would be another Tesla. Even today after that amount of time, the other EV options from other brands are still trying to catch up to the stats that my car has today. The BYD Seal is the nearest competitor to the Model 3 yet, looking at AWD Long Range options from both:

Its max charge rate is only 150kW vs the Model 3's 250kW (which means longer time at the charger during a road trip)
Its efficiency is worse with a real-world consumption of 168Wh/km vs 150Wh/km for the Model 3 - this means the BYD Seal needs a larger, heavier battery to be able to get close to the same range as the Model 3 (it still ends up with less, tho)
The Seal is 2300kg vs the Model 3 which is 1900kg - this might have an impact on how often the tyres need changing.
The Seal has a cargo capacity of 400L whereas the Model 3 is 600L
The Seal has a faster stock speed at 3.8s to 100 compared to 4.4 for the Model 3, but if that's not fast enough Tesla does have the option to unlock an acceleration boost to bring it down to 3.7s (my 2019 Long Range is a bit special and has a factory 0-100 of 3.3s)
Tesla's software and their ability to update it is still the best today

While this is a comparison of my 2019 Model 3 to a 2024 BYD Seal, the same conclusions are true if you compare a Model Y to its nearest competitors as well, just with different numbers.

Looking to buy a Tesla? Use my referral link and we both get credits

tweake

2391 posts

Uber Geek

#3250321 18-Jun-2024 10:48

Nj11:

Hi all

We have been thinking about going electric. However, two very basic questions come to mind

Are there any real benefits in buying electric vehicles? After the latest ACC Levy, I have calculated that I will save around $40 per 1000 km. I am a conventional Auckland driver with work to home to kids's activities kind of drive. EVS still need WOF and the insurance is generally higher than traditional cars, which offsets any savings on servicing etc.
If there are any real benefits (including saving the environment), is Tesla better than other cheaper alternatives like BYD.
cheers

i think the first thing is to work out the km's you do per day and what charging you can realistically do at home. also factor in failure modes ie power cut and no charging. do you have another car? is your run short enough you can miss a charge. then cost and practicalities of installing a faster charger etc.

edit: to add, if your required range is short and your in no rush to get a new car, then it might pay to hold off for a bit. the reason is sodium batteries. i think there is only one car out with them at the moment, byd is building its new battery factory, so it should not be to long before byd start offering models with them. that should bring the cost down. the downside is the lack of range.

CYaBro

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#3250322 18-Jun-2024 11:00

We have a gen1 MG ZS EV and will never go back to an ICE vehicle.
Had it just over two years and have done 58km.
We do have a Pajero Sport for towing but it doesn't get used much anymore and that will be our last ICE vehicle.

We're on the Genesis EV power plan so pay home power rates at ChargeNet chargers.
Has saved us about $90 in the 3 months we've been on that plan and we don't to a lot of long distance driving.
The power rates are the same as what we would be paying our previous power company.

My parents and older sister's family both have a Tesla Model 3 and my brother-in-law is a car guy.
Loves his cars and has had vehicles ranging from a 1960s Land Rover to a brand new Kia and all sorts in between.
He says the Tesla is the best car he's ever had.

Parent's 2nd car is a gen2 MG ZS EV and older sister's family also have a Nissan Leaf and a big SUV for towing their caravan.
Younger sister's family also have a Nissan Leaf.

Opinions are my own and not the views of my employer.

evnafets

537 posts

Ultimate Geek

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#3250324 18-Jun-2024 11:03

To comply with recent business insurance changes, EV/Hybrid vehicles must be parked 15 meters away from the building
Office has recently repainted the carpark spaces - and has marked a 'red zone' close to the building for petrol cars only, and the 'blue zone' for Electric/Hybrid vehicles.

That will probably filter down into home insurance soon if it hasn't already...

Obraik

2123 posts

Uber Geek

#3250325 18-Jun-2024 11:05

tweake:

i think the first thing is to work out the km's you do per day and what charging you can realistically do at home. also factor in failure modes ie power cut and no charging. do you have another car? is your run short enough you can miss a charge. then cost and practicalities of installing a faster charger etc.

edit: to add, if your required range is short and your in no rush to get a new car, then it might pay to hold off for a bit. the reason is sodium batteries. i think there is only one car out with them at the moment, byd is building its new battery factory, so it should not be to long before byd start offering models with them. that should bring the cost down. the downside is the lack of range.

The sort of power cut that you need to factor in as an issue for an EV will also be an issue for ICE vehicles (no power, no petrol pumps)

Holding off for the next best technology is also not very practical. Having a new to market sodium battery tomorrow isn't going to make the mature lithium battery in your EV today suddenly worthless.

Looking to buy a Tesla? Use my referral link and we both get credits

Obraik

2123 posts

Uber Geek

#3250326 18-Jun-2024 11:07

evnafets:

To comply with recent business insurance changes, EV/Hybrid vehicles must be parked 15 meters away from the building
Office has recently repainted the carpark spaces - and has marked a 'red zone' close to the building for petrol cars only, and the 'blue zone' for Electric/Hybrid vehicles.

That will probably filter down into home insurance soon if it hasn't already...

Do you have a source for that? It sounds like BS...especially since petrol cars catch fire more than EVs (including while parked)

Looking to buy a Tesla? Use my referral link and we both get credits

jarledb

Webhead
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#3250327 18-Jun-2024 11:09

evnafets:

To comply with recent business insurance changes, EV/Hybrid vehicles must be parked 15 meters away from the building

Which insurance company is this? That is crazy. EVs have 1/20th of the chance (based on real world statistics) to catch fire as a petrol/diesel car.

An insurance company demanding that cars that are that much less likely to catch fire be treated as if they were fire hazards must have something else going on, because it is not based on real world facts.

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