Standard bluray - any point watching in 4k mode?

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AklBen

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#302189 6-Nov-2022 08:02

Just got a Samsung S95B 4k TV. Using it with a (very good) 13 year old Pioneer AV receiver which has lossless audio capability paired with a Mission 5.1 system. Xbox One S will be the 4k capable Bluray.

Knowing that the amp was not going to work with 4K video, we'll send audio back to the amp via optical. However, found out last night when setting it all up that lossless audio (DTS-HD etc.) cannot go via optical and I knew the alternative ARC is not possible with this amp either - meaning Bluray audio won't be as good as I like it to be (just reverts to standard Dolby).

Then I figured that the standard Blurays are 1080p (I don't own any of the latest UHD ones) and that there's no point trying to watch them in 4k output - thus I *can* just send audio and video from the Xbox via the amp and get my lossless audio.

Am I correct or way wrong?

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Mad Scientist
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#2992392 6-Nov-2022 08:34

if you have a 4K tv you are watching it in 4K

somebody has to convert 1080p to 2160p

- either the TV the BD player or the amp. you choose.

RunningMan

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#2992394 6-Nov-2022 08:46

Batman:

if you have a 4K tv you are watching it in 4K

Ahh, no you're not. The source image will be scaled to the panel resolution to display, but scaling doesn't magically increase the defination of the original picture (despite what marketing would have you believe) to 4K.

I'd just try both the methods you have suggested and see which you are happiest with, rather than trying to determine which should be best theoritcally. One device may upscale far better than the other, or you may simply not notice the optical connection for audio quality. Either way, you're the one using it, so just try the different setups and stick with what looks or sounds best to you.

toejam316

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#2992403 6-Nov-2022 10:09

If you don't want to replace your receiver, but are up to splash a little cash, SHARC V2 is worth looking into. Extracts eARC signals from the TV, turns them into audio over HDMI which you can plug into your reciever. Just means you won't be able to use your reciever's additional inputs, you'll need to use the HDMI inputs on the SHARC and TV.

Anything I say is the ramblings of an ill informed, opinionated so-and-so, and not representative of any of my past, present or future employers, and is also probably best disregarded.

AklBen

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#2992714 7-Nov-2022 07:34

Wow nice, I'll look into the SHARC V2 if I find I start watching more and more UHD Blurays (unlikely TBH).

Last night compared the difference between non-UHD Quantum of Solace Bluray opening scene on the Xbox set to 4K resolution (direct to TV) and then 1080p resolution (via receiver). The 4K version was very-slightly clearer and a the colours a bit 'shinier' than the 1080p version. On the audio side of things, when in 4K it was Dolby 5.1 and not passed through and in 1080p DTS-HD Master. Obviously the DTS-HD sounded much much better.

The sound quality for me is more enjoyable than a very very slight lift in colour clarity. I just upped the brightness a little bit to get that colour pop a bit more like it was in 4K mode.

TLDR; 1080p vs 4K res on non-UHD Bluray in myset up was very slightly better in 4k mode, but not worth the trade off of not getting the lossless DTS audio.

rb99

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#2992719 7-Nov-2022 08:00

Just generally, I guess most people find the HDR bit more of an improvement with 4K disks than the resolution increase. And of course it depending on the movie itself. Reading around, there are a few 4K discs that seem to be worse than the bluray (like some Pirates of the Caribbean 4Ks), quite a few that are better resolution-wise and colour / hdr wise, and some that are way better.

Non of which matters if you're not going to bother with 4K disks anyway, but just to say, there can be some pretty big improvements with decent TV / player / receiver / soundbar.

“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

rb99

AklBen

102 posts

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#2992735 7-Nov-2022 08:49

rb99:

Just generally, I guess most people find the HDR bit more of an improvement with 4K disks than the resolution increase. And of course it depending on the movie itself. Reading around, there are a few 4K discs that seem to be worse than the bluray (like some Pirates of the Caribbean 4Ks), quite a few that are better resolution-wise and colour / hdr wise, and some that are way better.

Non of which matters if you're not going to bother with 4K disks anyway, but just to say, there can be some pretty big improvements with decent TV / player / receiver / soundbar.

Agreed. I chucked on a few 4K and HDR movies on last night from Disney+ and yeah, the HDR element was clearly the mind-blowing bit. It was nuts how good the colour representation was. Like a light bulb lit what a light bulb lit specifically, not a big blob of bright yellow on the screen. This compares to just 4k videos on YouTube which are just super clear, but don't have that colour representation.

If the streaming platforms add more and more HDR/4K titles (which they are) then physical media just becomes more and more pointless.

They might get me on the Bond box set though!!

wellygary

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#2992738 7-Nov-2022 08:59

RunningMan:

Ahh, no you're not. The source image will be scaled to the panel resolution to display, but scaling doesn't magically increase the defination of the original picture (despite what marketing would have you believe) to 4K.

Pretty sure that when a source is scaled up to fit a 4K panel there is at least some pixel interpolation that happens, ( i.e when it goes from 1080p to 4K it doesn't map 1 pixel straight to 4 pixels, it tries to workout a "best guess" between the pixels it has and the pixels it needs)

Granted this is not going to be as good as a 4K source, but its better that just "doubling" 1080p

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gehenna

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#2992841 7-Nov-2022 09:27

But it's not 4k

rb99

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#2992867 7-Nov-2022 10:08

AklBen:

rb99:

Just generally, I guess most people find the HDR bit more of an improvement with 4K disks than the resolution increase. And of course it depending on the movie itself. Reading around, there are a few 4K discs that seem to be worse than the bluray (like some Pirates of the Caribbean 4Ks), quite a few that are better resolution-wise and colour / hdr wise, and some that are way better.

Non of which matters if you're not going to bother with 4K disks anyway, but just to say, there can be some pretty big improvements with decent TV / player / receiver / soundbar.

Agreed. I chucked on a few 4K and HDR movies on last night from Disney+ and yeah, the HDR element was clearly the mind-blowing bit. It was nuts how good the colour representation was. Like a light bulb lit what a light bulb lit specifically, not a big blob of bright yellow on the screen. This compares to just 4k videos on YouTube which are just super clear, but don't have that colour representation.

If the streaming platforms add more and more HDR/4K titles (which they are) then physical media just becomes more and more pointless.

They might get me on the Bond box set though!!

I'm going to stick with discs till they stop making them. You just get the quality and the bitrate. Luckily there's always good stuff coming out, either it looks great or the movies great, or if you're lucky, both. I just got Top Gun Maverick 4K and hopefully soon Csablanca 4K, Pulp Fiction 4K, Reservoir Dogs, To Kill a Mockingbird, plus the ones I've got, like Lawrence of Arabia, Bridge over the River Kwai, the Harry Potters, Alien, Star Wars, Spartacus, Schindler's List, Shawshank, The Godfather etc.

OK, I'm getting boring now.

“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

rb99

mkissin

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#2992872 7-Nov-2022 10:19

gehenna:

But it's not 4k

There's good 4k, and bad 4k, but if you're viewing 3840 x 2160 pixels, then you're watching a 4k picture.

Something, somewhere upscaled it. That may even have been the studio before it was mastered to disc, but even then some of them do an absolutely bollocks job of it. There's little point in arguing the semantics, if you have a 4K TV then everything you watch is in 4K resolution.

gehenna

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#2992893 7-Nov-2022 11:04

Feels to me like the person who is arguing the physical display is the definition of the resolution of content you're watching, is the one arguing the semantics. The rest of the world is pretty comfortable saying if you're not watching native 4k on a 4k display, you're not watching 4k.

AklBen

102 posts

Master Geek

#2992895 7-Nov-2022 11:11

gehenna:
Feels to me like the person who is arguing the physical display is the definition of the resolution of content you're watching, is the one arguing the semantics. The rest of the world is pretty comfortable saying if you're not watching native 4k on a 4k display, you're not watching 4k.

Agreed.

mkissin

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#2992907 7-Nov-2022 11:40

It's all shades of gray though, based on codec, compression/bitrate, etc. It's very much a no-true-Scotsman argument that doesn't really get anywhere.

UHD disc is usually going to be best at 128 Mbps (and assuming a good master) but what about Netflix 4K? It's pretty good, but the bitrates were fixed at 8, 10, 12 or 16 Mbps (I think it's variable now). That's below what you can get off a standard bluray disc. A really good upscaler can do wonders as long as it has good starting material.

gehenna

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#2992921 7-Nov-2022 11:46

Semantics aplenty in that post.

mkissin

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#2992924 7-Nov-2022 11:53

Just describing my logic. You're watching 4K pixels, you're watching 4K, that's my line.

Might not be a 4K source, that's a different discussion.

Either way, I'd say most people would be better off sacrificing audio quality for video quality (or at least making sure you know what is doing your upscaling, and testing different options).

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