Using PAP2T over Skinny Broadband to 2Talk

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GlenzAGeek

5 posts

Wannabe Geek

#192071 25-Feb-2016 20:56

(Previous post caused webpage to crash so attempting brief re-post for now)...

Has anyone managed to get a PAP2T to work via Skinny Broadband (4G Modem)?
I can get it to register and call out OK but all incoming calls go direct to voicemail.

Key points:

Auto Provision via 2Talk and manual tweaks as per 2talk guides
Turned of SIP ALG in modem and firewall at one stage
Using proxy sip.2talk.co.nz:50600
Tried stun server
PAP2T Hardware version 0.1.5 & re-flashed firmware with 5.1.6(LS)
Tried DMZ in modem to PAP2T ip address
Tried calling from other 2talk number & from Mobile number to test internal/external access

Cheers

Glen

chevrolux

4962 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#1499439 25-Feb-2016 21:24

Double nat will be killing it.
Unless Skinny give you a public IP it will probably just keep causing issues.
Thinking about, maybe if there was a service that allowed you to create a VPN tunnel to the SIP proxy things would probably work ok.

GlenzAGeek

5 posts

Wannabe Geek

#1499449 25-Feb-2016 22:12

My thoughts also but both 2Talk and Skinny insist a PAP2T will work. I checked with both prior to purchasing.

As the 2talk apps work fine using TLS protocol I suspect I need an ATA that supports that method?
Based on written assurances from 2Talk & Skinny I don't expect to pay for a new device... yeah right!

speed

293 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1499450 25-Feb-2016 22:13

Not sure if the PAP2T supports TCP signalling, but if it does then it's worth a try to get around the double-NAT issue that chevrolux correctly refers to as being the root cause of your issue.

coffeebaron

6235 posts

Uber Geek

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Lifetime subscriber

#1499451 25-Feb-2016 22:19

You need TCP or TLS. I don't think the PAP2T support either. It's a very old device.

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GlenzAGeek

5 posts

Wannabe Geek

#1499452 25-Feb-2016 22:21

Hmm... reading Skinny's Broadband FAQ's below...

----------------------

Can I get a static IP?

Unfortunately, we can't offer Static IP addresses. This means you can't use your modem as a gateway server or for services like hosting particular games.

Can I do VOIP (Voice over IP) on Skinny Broadband?

Sorry, you can't do 'Voice over IP' with Skinny Broadband. But of course you can use apps like Skype or Viber to make and receive calls if you want to.

----------------------

I sought clarification on the VOIP declaration and it was agreed it should read "We don't supply VOIP". Apparently it was to prevent people from thinking the phone line port on the modem was for a VOIP connection.

Now that ip6 is fully implemented in professional Telco's it it not expected that this type of NAT issue should be an issue.

GlenzAGeek

5 posts

Wannabe Geek

#1499464 25-Feb-2016 23:05

I have it working now but will test over time before I get too excited.

No mention of these settings on 2talk but I see the PAP2T has additional NAT settings regarding VIA.
Not sure what these do so will research later (maybe winter when its not sunny outside)

Handle VIA received = Yes
Insert VIA received = Yes
Substitute VIA Addr = Yes
Handle VIA rport = Yes
Insert VIA rport = Yes
Send Resp To Src Port = Yes

sbiddle

30853 posts

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Biddle Corp

Lifetime subscriber

#1499510 26-Feb-2016 07:43

GlenzAGeek:

Hmm... reading Skinny's Broadband FAQ's below...

----------------------

Can I get a static IP?

Unfortunately, we can't offer Static IP addresses. This means you can't use your modem as a gateway server or for services like hosting particular games.

Can I do VOIP (Voice over IP) on Skinny Broadband?

Sorry, you can't do 'Voice over IP' with Skinny Broadband. But of course you can use apps like Skype or Viber to make and receive calls if you want to.

----------------------

I sought clarification on the VOIP declaration and it was agreed it should read "We don't supply VOIP". Apparently it was to prevent people from thinking the phone line port on the modem was for a VOIP connection.

Now that ip6 is fully implemented in professional Telco's it it not expected that this type of NAT issue should be an issue.

No 3G/4G network anywhere in the world is going to support a VoIP connection over their network. I doubt you'll find a single one who doesn't have that exact same clause in their contract which does means exactly what it says. It does not mean it's "we don't supply VoIP" - it means the quality of a VoIP service cannot be guaranteed to work over 3G/4G (for obvious reasons) so can't be supported by the provider.

Double NAT is an issue with VoIP, as is the long ongoing issue with VoIP inbound calls on the Spark mobile network that is discussed on a large number of threads on here over the years. The last such thread around 6 months ago showed the problem still existed, but using TCP apparently does get around this. The PAP2T hasn't been available for probably 5 or so years now and is an obsolete device and doesn't do TCP.

IPv6 and VoIP is an area fraught with issues and pretty much nobody does mass maket VoIP over IPv6 yet.

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DonGould

3892 posts

Uber Geek

#1499581 26-Feb-2016 09:36

I'd grab the Grandstream product and have a play. Steve's a master with this cisco stuff and when he's saying no, it generally means you just shouldn't bother. (Sorry to rain on your beloved ATA :( )

I've played with most of the Cisco stuff that's sort of in this domain and just favour the GS stuff as much simpler to make work, though it's not as nice in terms of tone patterns.

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Localeyes

31 posts

Geek

#1515324 18-Mar-2016 08:48

GlenzAGeek:

I have it working now but will test over time before I get too excited.

No mention of these settings on 2talk but I see the PAP2T has additional NAT settings regarding VIA.
Not sure what these do so will research later (maybe winter when its not sunny outside)

Handle VIA received = Yes
Insert VIA received = Yes
Substitute VIA Addr = Yes
Handle VIA rport = Yes
Insert VIA rport = Yes
Send Resp To Src Port = Yes

Hi Glen,

Can you share what you did to get it working?

Thanks

GlenzAGeek

5 posts

Wannabe Geek

#1515538 18-Mar-2016 12:03

Despite what we were all thinking, the PAP2T-NA will work in the Skinny Broadband Double-NAT scenario & 2Talk.

The PAP2T is still widely available due to aged stock or clone and there are even 2Talk re-sellers touting these on Trademe
As I type this reply my Geekzone page is surrounded by PAP2T adverts - thanks to Google Analytics no doubt!
I paid $30 for my unit from Trademe and checked the authenticity of it using this site -> voipfan.net/other/fakepap2.php

This is how I got mine to work...

Skinny Modem:
1. Skinny Broadband Modem (default settings as delivered). Model B315s-608.
2. Settings/Security/SIP ALG Settings: turn off (not enabled). It will still seemingly work with this enabled but common
advice is to avoid using this feature unless you need to.

PAP2T-NA
The PAP2T-NA has additional NAT Support Parameters (VIA) that seem to manage/modify the SIP header by handling the double
NAT IP addresses. Hard to find much info on these and not all providers support this but luckily 2Talk do.

1. To save time I used the 2Talk Auto-Provisioning wizard for the initial configuration settings as this ensures the basics
such as account info, Regional Settings etc are correct.
2. Then set the Following:

[SIP]
admin/advanced/sip

Nat Support Parameters

Handle VIA received = Yes
Insert VIA received = Yes
Substitute VIA Addr = Yes
Handle VIA rport = Yes
Insert VIA rport = Yes
Send Resp To Src Port = Yes

2Talk advised I need to set "registration expiry/interval short due to the double NAT" but were non specific so I have
abritarily set these for now as follows:

NAT Support Parameters-> NAT Keep Alive Intvl: 15
SIP Timer Values (sec)-> Reg Max Expires:180

----------------------------

[Line 1]
admin/advanced/Line1

SIP Settings
SIP Port:50600

Proxy and Registration
Proxy:plus.2talk.co.nz:50600
Outbound Proxy:plus.2talk.co.nz:50600
(note that the SP Port 50600 needs to be added to the proxy address)

Observations & tweaks:

No need for stun server settings in the PAP2T or any port allocations Modem makes this a simpler solution.

I prefer to use Fixed IP addresses for devices on my network like Printers & PAP2T's.
By Default the Skinny Modem uses DHCP 192.168.1.65 -> 253.
I set my PAP2T to 192.168.1.10 (adjust to suit) which makes it easier to manage.
You can do this prior to initial config using the IVR method or alter once you log on via the browswer...

admin/advanced/System

Internet Connection Type
DHCP: no
Static IP: 192.168.1.xx (xx = 10 in my case)
Gateway: 192.168.1.254 (Skinny Modem address)
NetMask: 255.255.255.0

Optional Network Configuration
Primary DNS: 192.168.1.254 (Skinny Modem address)

If things go wonky one day you can at least try a remote reboot via your browser ->192.168.1.xx/admin/reboot
I found this quite good after setting parameters as the PAP2T didn't always reboot after changes were made.

TEST:
If you reboot the Skinny Modem it will generally be allocated new IP addresses. After a power reset of the Modem the
WhatsMyIP website reported a new 122.xxx.xxx.xxx Public address and the Modem WAN had a new 100.xxx.xxx.xxx address
(Settings/Device Information/WAN IP Address).
The PAP2T re-connects as soon as the Skinny Modem connects which is a good
sign that it is managing things OK thus far.

TIME:
I had issues with the time setting. Even using the same NTP setting as the Skinny Modem the PAP2T was an hour out
regardless of the daylight saving rule. This needs to be correct as the likes of my Panasonic cordeless syncs it's clock
off the Caller-ID between the 1st & 2nd ring with every call. Looks like the PAP2T formats the Caller ID from the incoming
call data (name & Number) and the Local time on the PAP2T.

admin/advanced/System
Primary NTP Server: ntp.2talk.co.nz

My hope is that this will still work when daylight saving rolls over. Time will tell...

Localeyes

31 posts

Geek

#1515824 18-Mar-2016 18:28

Thanks @GlenzAGeek

All working now...and hopefully tomorrow too!