Career Advice: Entry Level Dev

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GeWizard

4 posts

Wannabe Geek

#270532 13-May-2020 21:23

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Hi, i've had bad luck with my career over the past several years.

Graduated from Unitec in 2013 with a Bachelor of Computing Systems focusing on Networking and Data Comms.

Few years at an ISP then a few more years at various Application Support roles and I'm sick of the delpdesk climb. Decided to throw in that bs.

Fastforward to now and i'm going back and through the dev path this time. I wouldn't mind doing app support if it promised a dev role in the future. But i'm trying to get a entry level programmers role. But thought i'd try here too, ya never know.

I'm pre average at Python/ Django, Java, SQL, HTML, CSS. I can use Git VCS, and GitHub. I've worked in software teams before as a support analyst.

If someone can look over my Linkedin for me can they PM me and I'll throw them the link. I'm pretty much just looking for advice on where to go next. I can self-learn anything. I have the determination. Just feel like these past 30 years have been a waste trying to do what's pracitcal in life etc and still getting nowhere.

madduck

51 posts

Master Geek

#2483250 13-May-2020 22:59

I am sorry you've been having a hard time. Hang in there. You will get there!

I wonder if https://devacademy.co.nz might be of interest to you. Not affiliated with them, and I know they seem expensive, but I think there are sponsorship packages available.

marpada

475 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2483272 13-May-2020 23:18

Getting your foot on the door as a junior developer is hard even for CS graduates as companies prefer devs who can touch the ground running and there's a constant influx of talent into the country. Once you get your first job your salary might grow 2X in a few years.

In the pre covid-19 world I would recommend you to attend as many hackatons and meetups to grow your network.

Delphinus

611 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2483280 13-May-2020 23:43

Just a suggestion, accuracy/grammar etc does matter, even in your forum posts. Maybe there are potential employers on here that could be put off. Accuracy, capitalisation etc are very important with development.

This could possibly be affecting your job application success? Eg

Hi, i'veI've had bad luck with my career over the past several years.

Graduated from Unitec in 2013 with a Bachelor of Computing Systems focusing on Networking and Data Comms.

Few years at an ISP then a few more years at various Application Support roles and I'm sick of the delpdesk (helpdesk or slang?) climb. Decided to throw in that bs.

Fastforward to now and i'm I'm going back and through the dev path this time. I wouldn't mind doing app support if it promised a dev role in the future. But i'mI'm trying to get a entry level programmers role. But thought i'dI'd try here too, ya you never know.

I'm pre (are you pretty average? pre-average as in prior to average?) average at Python/ Django, Java, SQL, HTML, CSS. I can use Git VCS, and GitHub. I've worked in software teams before as a support analyst.

If someone can look over my Linkedin for me can they PM me and I'll throw them the link. I'm pretty much just looking for advice on where to go next. I can self-learn anything. I have the determination. Just feel like these past 30 years have been a waste trying to do what's pracitcal practical in life etc and still getting nowhere.

I know you're frustrated, but to try and put your best foot forward at all times, you never know who is paying attention.

GeWizard

4 posts

Wannabe Geek

#2485519 18-May-2020 11:49

Hey guys. Thanks a lot for your tips. I do agree with them both. I've actually had issues in the past with my proffesional writing so I could actually work on that a lot. I can always learn and get passsionate about IT subjects but other skills are neglected for sure.

Covid-19 has def hit me at the worse timing possible. I'm at a stalemate in my career. I feel like i've been reset to start over.

I feel I have just as good a chance making it in a music career than programming right now.

GeWizard

4 posts

Wannabe Geek

#2485521 18-May-2020 11:51

I don't know if i should mention here that I've actually 'made it' business wise also and I'm not after this career for the money. Wonder if a lot of people might tell me to ditch the path altogether with this new info.

I like IT. I want to have flexible hours. I liked support and solving issues but I didn't like being programmed myself to sound and act like someone I'm not, e.g, a robot for 8 hrs a day. They never went anywhere. They never taught me or gave me access to anything else to expand my knowledge.

I've bounced around jobs when I learned everything i could until I was halted. I did two summer schools in Uni to finish one semester early. I literally built and sold a successful side business that i could retire on WHILE chasing a career in IT.

I feel I'm only chasing this carreer due to stubborness now. As in how much effort I've put in and never making it out of support. I was told i wouldn't make it in this career by family. And I do feel like i'm still trying to prove it to them...

I believe people have the tools themselves to do anything. I DON'T think i have just had 'bad luck'. I don't believe in luck. And i'm a borderline problem gambler lol.

Loaf

108 posts

Master Geek

#2504717 14-Jun-2020 23:21

Honestly I am so disillusioned I'm thinking about giving up.

Spent my teens making games and apps, earned enough money to keep my parents off my back about a job. Been interested in software development since forever, computing in general has been a big thing in my life. Got a BSc at uni, did a bit of comp sci, software engineering, and philosophy (Turing, AI, computing, etc).

Graduated and feel more useless and incapable than I've ever felt. Feels like companies only want veteran specialists who work in languages or tools I got diddly-squat training in, and the "tech" industry is so fast paced it feels like you learn X and then that's no good and now you need Y and it goes on and on, barrier after barrier. Meanwhile on the news the media goes crazy because a 14 year old built a "game" in Roblox, and people online joke about having jobs where "all I do is google code lel." Apparent managers and CEOs posted fluff articles on LinkedIn about how much they want generalists and "thinkers" but they actually don't.

The only time I ever hear of "people changing careers to get into the booming tech industry" is when some organisation is trying to sell a study / upskill programme.

If I could go back in time I'd tell the child me to never go down this miserable path lol.

GeWizard

4 posts

Wannabe Geek

#2505036 15-Jun-2020 14:24

Loaf:

Honestly I am so disillusioned I'm thinking about giving up.

Spent my teens making games and apps, earned enough money to keep my parents off my back about a job. Been interested in software development since forever, computing in general has been a big thing in my life. Got a BSc at uni, did a bit of comp sci, software engineering, and philosophy (Turing, AI, computing, etc).

Graduated and feel more useless and incapable than I've ever felt. Feels like companies only want veteran specialists who work in languages or tools I got diddly-squat training in, and the "tech" industry is so fast paced it feels like you learn X and then that's no good and now you need Y and it goes on and on, barrier after barrier. Meanwhile on the news the media goes crazy because a 14 year old built a "game" in Roblox, and people online joke about having jobs where "all I do is google code lel." Apparent managers and CEOs posted fluff articles on LinkedIn about how much they want generalists and "thinkers" but they actually don't.

The only time I ever hear of "people changing careers to get into the booming tech industry" is when some organisation is trying to sell a study / upskill programme.

If I could go back in time I'd tell the child me to never go down this miserable path lol.

Man, I really resonate with you on this. Computing has been a huge part of my life too but the career path is downright depressing in so many ways.

Wise

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Loaf

108 posts

Master Geek

#2505168 15-Jun-2020 16:16

It is. During my degree I saw people on Reddit talking a lot about the myth of the industry being hungry for devs. I thought maybe they were just trying to rationalise their own struggle or that things were different in NZ, but so far, nope. They weren't kidding.

Comp sci classes were huge and diverse at my uni. If there is a deficit of people it's because the entry path is obscure and cliquey. A couple of professors told me that many jobs aren't even advertised and you just have to know someone or be networked with companies. Another professor in the game industry told me that it's becoming more common to just contract out specialists and then have a small dedicated team of generalists (maybe someone else here can confirm or deny this). The challenge is getting into that inner circle to begin with, I suppose.

The days of the neat path from uni to job are surely dead now.

MurrayM

2456 posts

Uber Geek

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Lifetime subscriber

#2505596 16-Jun-2020 09:31

Way too many companies these days aren't interested in training their staff, they want you to join them with all the skills they require.

I started out as a COBOL programmer in the 80's and my company sent me on several courses to learn other programming languages that they used as well as courses on the operating system (PRIMOS) they used. These days companies expect you to already know everything. If a company uses Node.js and you have a lot of experience with JavaScript but haven't used Node.js then they won't consider you, even though you'd probably pick up Node.js really quickly.

chewster

127 posts

Master Geek

Trusted

#2512393 25-Jun-2020 17:37

I tried the dev-route, worked as a junior web dev for a bit, the company folded and I sorta ended up in SEO & digital marketing. Once you start specializing, marketing can get pretty analytical & technical too.

From my POV there's been plenty of demand for marketers who are a bit techy, last couple interviews offered the job same day (might have been a fluke for me lol). If you can blend JS dev and some CSS + analytics + marketing then you open up a lot of options.

Especially if you go down a rabbit hole like CRO, TechSEO, web-analytics, Email dev/automation etc.

IMO some of these could be a really good segway into front-end web-dev if that's the direction you wanted to go later. Some DM roles attract dev-like salaries particularly after 2-4years if you're good.

Anyway food for thought.

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SirHumphreyAppleby

2844 posts

Uber Geek

#2512457 25-Jun-2020 18:42

MurrayM:

Way too many companies these days aren't interested in training their staff, they want you to join them with all the skills they require

While there is likely a lot of truth to this, recruiters are also a big part of the problem. Most seem to just want to shuffle people from one job to the next based on nothing more than job title.

I have a good success rate applying directly for roles in development (senior roles, so I can't really comment on entry level positions these days), but rarely get so much as a generic reply from recruiters.

Seek now sends resume details to recruiters and seems to flag users as being strong applicants. No doubt this information will be used by recruiters to weed out applicants even faster. FWIW, I am a "strong applicant" for almost every job I look at, except the ones that interest me... I guess I haven't worked out the keywords I need yet.