2Degrees tower upgrade plans?

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OtterNZ

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#319209 2-Apr-2025 22:28

Hi all, I'm currently testing 2Degrees network performance in places where I live, work, and visit regularly by going dual SIM with my existing Spark connection. I'm using Android's signal strength reporting (the decibel reading, not "bars"), and speedtest.net + fast.com to benchmark performance. I've found that there were urban locations close to 2D sites where signal strength was significantly worse than to Spark sites that were further away.

I checked the bands in use and found that in these areas, the 2D SIM was only using 1800MHz (Band 3) while the Spark one was using 700MHz (Band 28). I checked using GIS Geek NZ and saw that in some of the places I was visiting (including towns with several towers) 2D wasn't using band 28 on their urban towers. Looking elsewhere I see urban towers where 2D is using band 28. I've found old threads talking about new 2D towers having 700MHz/Band 28 equipment, while old ones are being upgraded to include band 28.

Is it a safe assumption to assume if I see entire towns or suburbs where every tower there still only has Band 3, that a band 28 upgrade is planned for one or more of those towers? Does 2D publish a list of planned upgrades anywhere?

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#3359990 3-Apr-2025 08:31

2degrees does not publish our network upgrade plans anywhere. This is commercially sensitive information as I'm sure you will appreciate.

What I can say is that as the time to shut down 3G approaches over the course of this year we will be increasing the size and quality of our 4G footprint to ensure that VoLTE coverage is at least on par if not better than the 3G coverage it replaces. This involves a mix of strategies which will include refarming 900MHz spectrum for LTE (band 8) where that is not already being done as well as adding carriers on other bands appropriate to the situation. On top of that as part of the use-it-or-lose-it obligations for 5G, some smaller towns will see the gear completely replaced with 5G sites which will also transmit on lower bands for 4G.

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#3359992 3-Apr-2025 08:35

2degrees is currently going right across NZ and changing out Huawai RAN kit for Ericsson

grantius

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#3360114 3-Apr-2025 12:07

SaltyNZ:

2degrees does not publish our network upgrade plans anywhere. This is commercially sensitive information as I'm sure you will appreciate.

What I can say is that as the time to shut down 3G approaches over the course of this year we will be increasing the size and quality of our 4G footprint to ensure that VoLTE coverage is at least on par if not better than the 3G coverage it replaces. This involves a mix of strategies which will include refarming 900MHz spectrum for LTE (band 8) where that is not already being done as well as adding carriers on other bands appropriate to the situation. On top of that as part of the use-it-or-lose-it obligations for 5G, some smaller towns will see the gear completely replaced with 5G sites which will also transmit on lower bands for 4G.

Are there any plans (if you can say!) for things like n8 for low band 5g?

SaltyNZ

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#3360120 3-Apr-2025 12:31

grantius:

Are there any plans (if you can say!) for things like n8 for low band 5g?

Nothing I can share, sorry.

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OtterNZ

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#3360324 3-Apr-2025 21:07

Thanks guys that's good to know. I had been surprised because it's pretty flat around me and two of the 2D towers were 450-500m, and 750-850m from me yet I was getting 115-118 dBm at my desk, 108-112 dBm around most of the house, 95-100 dBm outside. Those areas respectively also get... desk: 3-6 Mbps when the speeds are bad, 12-15 Mbps when the speeds are good ... rest of house: 18-25 Mbps ... outside: 30-40 Mbps.

One of those towers shows "900: 3G UMTS and/or 4G LTE" on GIS Geeks, and when I use an app to check bands being picked up it shows B8 900 GSM. Does that mean that it's likely only 3G 900 at that tower and not 4G 900? (Could just be a description they used from back when it was a 2G GSM band)

This might seem like a lot of effort to understand my cell signal, but I grabbed a 2D SIM while the $26 deal was running and I'm wanting to make sure signal and performance are suitable before bringing my number over.

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#3360400 4-Apr-2025 06:44

@OtterNZ I take it you don't have broadband at home and approx where about are you located?

SaltyNZ

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#3360416 4-Apr-2025 08:17

OtterNZ:

One of those towers shows "900: 3G UMTS and/or 4G LTE" on GIS Geeks, and when I use an app to check bands being picked up it shows B8 900 GSM. Does that mean that it's likely only 3G 900 at that tower and not 4G 900?

No, it means we are sharing 5MHz of spectrum between 3G and 4G. The 3G is squeezed down into the minimum bandwidth that will work, leaving the rest of it for LTE. As a bare minimum when 3G is shutdown, the entire 5MHz will then be freed up for LTE.

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#3360549 4-Apr-2025 10:24

@SaltyNZ

Does this mean a stand alone network.

https://www.reseller.co.nz/article/3951928/2degrees-taps-nokia-to-optimise-5g-and-roll-out-new-applications.html

SaltyNZ

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#3360553 4-Apr-2025 10:26

No, CNCS is Nokia's IMS core. We are replacing the legacy Microsoft (Metaswitch) one, as Microsoft decided to exit the carrier market last year.

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#3360556 4-Apr-2025 10:29

SaltyNZ:

No, CNCS is Nokia's IMS core. We are replacing the legacy Microsoft (Metaswitch) one, as Microsoft decided to exit the carrier market last year.

That's exciting!

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OtterNZ

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#3360706 4-Apr-2025 13:37

Linux:

@OtterNZ I take it you don't have broadband at home and approx where about are you located?

I'm actually in town and show as "excellent" coverage in the 2D coverage map, which is why my experience surprised me and I went down the rabbit hole to understand it haha (any why there are two 2D towers within a few hundred metres of me). I have 300/100 fibre at home (gigabit is available) and I get Spark 5G around parts of my house from a tower that's actually further away than two of the 2D towers but in the same direction as one of them. I can PM you and/or Salty a more specific location if you both work for 2D?

I've done some more testing today and found that ones where I was right by a tower (tried at two towers) I get speeds more similar to Spark (60-90mbps), in places where I was 200-600m away from a tower there were three types of spots. Ones getting 25-30mbps, ones getting +/15mbps, and ones getting 3-8mbps. An example of one of those results was 7mbps at 500m with half of that being a sports field and part and half of that being single story houses.

I checked bands near this tower with netmonitor and it only showed band 3 1800 being detected:

Tested using a Fold5

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#3360708 4-Apr-2025 13:47

Your experience will vary depending on where the sectors are pointing, trans power, capacity and what LTE band your UE (user equipment aka your phone) are attached to and what the RAN thinks is the best.

Keep in mind, 2100mhz is actually on LTE/4G, 900 is also probably both U900 and L900(Salty might be able to confirm or not) but nobody could really confirm except what you see in the real world, which you've done some tests already.

If that cell site is at capacity your experience will be miserable regardless what you do.

If it's any value, my closest 2degrees cell site is just under 600 meters away and with a starting cell of L2100 + 1800 + 700 and I pull 221mbps DL and just shy of 37mbps up. Which for LTE... is pretty incredible.

Now if only the RAN would move my UE to NR3500 ;)

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#3360725 4-Apr-2025 14:12

The testing I have done on sites that have the new Ericsson kit on them 4G / LTE easy 200Mbps down 100 up

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#3360728 4-Apr-2025 14:36

This is a 5G speedtest down in Auckland CBD start of May 2025 on 2degrees on a Samsung S23+

MaxineN

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#3360734 4-Apr-2025 14:52

Linux:

This is a 5G speedtest down in Auckland CBD start of May 2025 on 2degrees on a Samsung S23+

Just as good as what I had when I was a One NZ customer... although I had the advantage of being within 50 meters of the cell site :~)

Ramblings from a mysterious lady who's into tech. Warning I may often create zingers.

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