Telstra Clear 3g Coming..

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#15415 9-Jun-2005 12:30

sbiddle - there are multiple mobile networks in Aussie and Voda is a lowly third on the leader board. Of course they want as many MVNOs as possible to up the usage on their network. In NZ where is Voda is number 1 I can understand their reluctance.

Telstra are a $20b plus company. They could afford the $1b required to build their own network here but obviously there is not the ROI. So, instead they bleat to the NZ government to get what they want. With mobile penetration in NZ at probably well over 80% where are Telstra's customers going to come from? The answer is off Telecom and Voda. How is that growing the market?

tonyhughes

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#15418 9-Jun-2005 17:36

As for Vodafone being paid for the use of their network - so what? I think its no better than living in a dictatorship of a third world country where a business is forced to do business with people they dont want to, at a price set by a third party altogether.

I had a Telecom mobile when they were the only game in town - $2 a minute $40 a month no free minutes no caller id etc on a Motorola DPC650 (im sure some of you had them way earlier than that!).

Now I have a better handset, far more services, and way better pricing, which in some way has to be attributed to VF coming in, building a network, and competing in good faith (and doing very well might i add).

Why cant Telstra come and build a network and compete like Vodafone did, or just go away?

If i want to compete with any other business in NZ, I will need to build and sell my own products & services, not leech off others successes.

Its just wrong.

[/end passionate rant]

P.S. Jama - the Farmer Brown thing rocks. Well put.

sbiddle

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#15427 9-Jun-2005 18:04

That very same farmer debate has been used by Telecom numerous times to try and
defend their case against unbundling. There are several flaws in the logic:

You can't directly compare a phone network to a milking shed. The introduction of a 3rd mobile competitor (or unbundling) isn't necessarily going to result in an increase in the amount of traffic being carried across the network. Cows need to be milked twice a day at the same time therefore the milking shed will probably need an increase in the capacity to cater for all those cows at once. If you unbundle the local loop you will still have a
similair number of physical lines but those lines will be shared amongst multiple carriers. The same situation exists with a mobile network, you can pretty much argue that NZ has almost reached saturation point when it comes to mobile customers. The introduction of a 3rd carrier will simply result in that load being spread. Vodafone will not be forced to offer 3G roaming to Telstra customers, only GSM therefore they will not necessarily need to offer any increase in capacity over what they have at the moment.

Vodafone have a roaming deal in Australia since their coverage lacks way behind Telstra where a Vodafone customer can roam on Telstra. This is exactly what Telstra want to do in NZ.

I don't think TelstraClear have got their own way in NZ at all, it is anything but. All of their strategic visions to date have been given a big slap because of the policies of the government - they wanted to build a hybrid hfc/copper network in Auckland but couldn't get resource consent, they then wanted unbundling to compete but that was not allowed either.
Telecom and Telstra play exactly the same games in the others home country. They are both just big leaches. You can blame the government for the current scenario happening but obviously Vodafone are going to be making more $$ from mandatory roaming than letting Telstra operate a virtual network.

tonyhughes

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#15428 9-Jun-2005 18:15

Regardless of who is doing these activities, and where they are doing them, do you beleive its fair and decent? Will the government extend the same policies to me when i want to offer services of a much smaller business? I doubt it.

BTW - Im not trying to troll, or stir you up for the heck of it, I really truly believe that its wrong. The NZ govt should put a stop to that sort of thing here, and Id say the Aus govt should do the same over there, and stop Aapt from doing the same thing. (But im not austrailian, so i'll happily leave that side of things to them).

re: cows,

I dont think one group of cows will mind being milked everyday 1 hour later than the first group??
any sharemilkers here?

Ambrose_1

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#15760 17-Jun-2005 17:21

Does this mean in future you will be able to buy a TelstraClear simcard (029 i presume) and use it on their 3G network?

tonyhughes

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#15761 17-Jun-2005 17:24

Can anyone confirm whether WCDMA actually uses simcards or not?
WCDMA handsets could be locked to a network as well i presume (so if you want a telstra connection you would have to go buy a telstra phone?)

Ambrose_1

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#15762 17-Jun-2005 17:27

Well I got a UMTS (W-CDMA) phone and its got a sim card i would presume all do since they fall back on to GSM

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tonyhughes

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#15763 17-Jun-2005 17:30

thats a very good point. :-)

taniwha

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#15765 17-Jun-2005 18:47

just another point to add...
Old Macdonald's cows do not need to share spectrum with Farmer Brown's cows.

i'm not well versed in this, but it seems to me the NZ govt should not be extending special favours to Aussie telcos without a reciprocal agreement in Australia.

What's the situation? ARe there plans to legislate that aussie networks must allow telecom to sell it's service over there, piggybacking on aussie infrastructure?

sbiddle

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#15768 17-Jun-2005 20:43

Since unbundling exists in Australia AAPT are already selling services piggybacking on Telstras network. They also operate a VMNO mobile network on Vodafone's network.

timbo

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#15807 19-Jun-2005 20:43

The point of the Govt's position is to stimulate competition in a core infrastructure industry that will likely be beneficial to the entire economy. That's just a Govt. doing what is best for the wider interest, and it happens all over the world. Unfortunatley the Govt. hasn't yet had the guts to unbundle local loop - but with Wired Country and Woosh looking doubtful it may be that building out new infratstructure is simply not economically feasible.

Remember in Australia there is real mobile competition and prices are much lower.

Also, Vodafone are only required to let TelstraClear users roam onto the 2G part of their network, not any of the 3G!

johnr

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#15809 19-Jun-2005 21:54

Also in OZ there are alot more people

sbiddle

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#15812 19-Jun-2005 22:41

There may be more people but the network is also larger so that comparison is meaningless.

Using Vodafone's own figures they have spent roughly $3 billion in oz to get a customer base of roughly 3 million and in NZ roughly $2 billion to gain a 2 million customer base. While there are lots of extra costs to look at there are probably people who would argue the cost of providing a service in NZ should be similair to Australia.

taniwha

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#15826 20-Jun-2005 09:03

i also question the "more people' theory. There's a lot more land in australia. - much of it emptier than the rangipo desert.

paradoxsm

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#16294 4-Jul-2005 21:49

quote Remember in Australia there is real mobile competition and prices are much lower.

Prices there are actually quite a bit higher, well until recently., especially for low users. But are rates are now excellent with the new bundle caps. see below... :-)

Aus Data is $20 a Meg
NZ Data is $10 a Meg
(voda have 500 megs for $49 though which is fantastic though it's the only data plan that's even resonable)

Aus TXT is .25c a Message
NZ TXT is .20 a Message
(Some providers have the cheek to charge 35¢ for intl txt's Optus, 3 g)

Aus MMS is 50c a message
NZ MMS is just 20¢!
(some providers up to $0.75¢ Telstra)

Aus Callrate is $60c/min + 20c connection fee.
NZ Callrate is $49c/min + No connection fee.
(some providers up to $1 a min + 25¢ connection telstra)

Edited, sory,
typed on a pocketpc, a little hard to see mistakes!

(data on Prepaid systems stadard rates, cheapest comparable main network, (voda/Voda)

Bundle CAPs.
Australia has recently launched caps. you get EG: $120 for $30
$230 for $50. things are looking better, much much better for high users.

Vodas $49 for $230 credit works out to:
one of the following. It's an exellent system, not restricted by free minutes like the restrictive plans here.

Do the Math

(rate\4.7 on $49 cap)

920 texts.
460 pxts
638 1800 call minutes
353 inc 20 connections fee @ 4 mins per call

the price paid works out to be:
6c a text
13c a pxt
14c a minute
10c a 1800 minute

Which is fantastic....

my calling/txt/mms patterns change month to month so this has worked out superbly.

lThumbs up to the daring telco whom introduced these.

I'm a sparkie by trade and My mobile bills were $ 500 a month, here that has shrunk to $49. I'm considering going back, Permanently. :-)

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