Vodafone and 3G

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mikman

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#1416 21-Apr-2004 00:44

So it looks like Vodafone are going to announce their 3G vendor soon....

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?storyID=3561427&thesection=business&thesubsection=telecommunications

What do people think will be the killer apps for 3G and is it worth spending $400m odd for the promise of video conferencing on your mobile ? Especially when it looks like (according to the Herald today) that coverage will be limited for the first few years - or am I missing something obvious?

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#4942 21-Apr-2004 02:31

I think 3G is going to turn out to be like CDMA. It kinda seems like a good idea, but when it's rolled out everyone realises that it sucks and abandons it in droves.

Why do I think this? WiFi. It's cheaper and easier to implement.
Video conferencing has been available for years to us via ISDN or even netmeeting type applications and how many people use them so much to the point they'll need to take it with them on their mobile?

Protocols like WiMax are advancing at a rapid pace, soon people will be able to take their laptop anywhere with a WiMax card and sign onto a network of their choosing. ie not just one provider will have a WiMax network, consumers will have a choice. That'll drive down prices, leaving 3G in the dust as a good idea with no real user base.

It's late and I'm sleepy so I haven't linked any documents to back up my rantings, I'll do that tomorrow. I work in the Telco field (obviously not for Vodafone!) so I'm really interested in where all this is going. Feel free to argue with me, I'm always interested in why people think 3G is going to be something that takes off really well.

I haven't talked about Voice calls, from what I understand 3G offers much better voice quality. I don't think this is a valid justification for how much it's going to cost to roll out either though.

Audiophiles are such twits! They buy such pointless stuff: Gold plated cables, $2000 power cords. Idiots.

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johnr

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#4946 21-Apr-2004 06:54

coverage will be limited but remember the handsets will be Dual mode, so when you move out of 3G coverage it will then switch to 2G so really the only difference will be data speeds and a small change in voice quality. Vodafone is also building Wifi into its mobile conect cards 2G/3G/Wifi these have being released in france I think some Euro country anyway. Vodafone NZ will start selling the Dual mode 3G/2G card soon. 3G part only good when roaming on another countries network which offers 3G.

mikman

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#4951 21-Apr-2004 12:11

So has the handoff issue been well and truly sorted? i thought that there were lots of problems experienced in other networks around the world with calls dropping at the handover boundary between UMTS and GPRS. For those wth memories it took ages for this get sorted between digital and analogue networks....

sbiddle

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#5252 30-Apr-2004 15:22

I think 3G is going to have different aims and benefits for different countries and networks. In many major European cities network congestion is a very big issue and the far greater voice capacity of a WCDMA network is going to be a one of key factors. Somewhere like London can be a nightmare at certain times of the day, you simply can't make or receive calls due to the networks overloaded even with cellsites literally on every corner and all networks implimenting the HR codec. Albiet the UK GSM carriers don't exactly have huge amounts of bandwidth when they have both the 900 and 1800Mhz GSM bands divided up between the 4 of them but when people start raving about 3G networks solely for data speeds they tend to forget that voice is going to still make up the bulk of traffic for years to come.

freitasm

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#5253 30-Apr-2004 15:27

I agree. In the industry some say that voice still is the killer application.

johnr

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#5256 30-Apr-2004 16:38

I agree voice will be the killer and when Data rates come down for consumers it will drive up usage

sbiddle

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#5295 1-May-2004 13:06

Everybody knows that when data rates come down usage will increase - everybody except the networks themselves who seem determined to recoup their costs quickly by charging way too much for a product therefore restricting the customer base.

The issue at present is that if you drop all GPRS traffic to $1 MB the revenue gathered for WAP is going to be slashed by a huge amount. Until some smart cookie finally realises that the current business model that Vodafone Live! has of paying for content will limit it's potential, things like News and Weather should be free and will encourage repeat use and generate extra data revenue when people think nothing of accessing the service several times per day. How many people seriously pay $1 per day for some of the services? They should be charging a premium date rate for accessing Vodafone live to effectively pay for a lot the content but still charge extra for things like ringtones and games. What's the point in having a WAP portal that costs you $$ to subscribe to every individual service to access it?

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johnr

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#5305 1-May-2004 18:45

Everytime you download off vodafone live royalties are paid to the owners of the music and there are also content owners that need to be paid, News weather sport. the staff that sort this stuff out needs to be paid, and currently the prices of GPRS are governed around friday 5.00pm when the network is at its max load. When 3G is launched things Im sure will be different.

kiwisteve

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#5347 2-May-2004 16:22

Howdy !
from what I have heard in Italy , when you are on a 3G call and move out of the coverage area the call is lost and wont drop to GSM automatically . You manually have to redial on GSM . But this may be because of a different operator !

Steve

johnr

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#5353 2-May-2004 17:12

Not the case at all for NZ it will be auto switching between GSM and 3GSM, Same as what happens for other networks around the world

kiwisteve

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#5354 2-May-2004 17:57

Thanks for the Info , I'm pleased to hear that !

My friend in Italy said its a real Pain with the 3G dropping the call !
so he uses GSM near the marginal areas !!

Steve

Jama

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#6131 28-May-2004 14:43

Breaking News - UMTS Data Rates Confirmed

International technology research organization J.MA Research has today confirmed that UMTS cellular networks are achieving an average data rate of 384gpm. This research debunks the commonly held believe that these networks have had the potential to reach data rates of 384kbps. Various UMTS equipment vendors have challenged this research and the methodology used in determining the ‘gpm’ calculation. CTO for J.MA Research, Dr Bob Maja, indicated those challenging the research were doing so to protect their own interests. Dr Maja confirmed term ‘gpm’ has a direct mathematical relationship to the commonly used ‘kbps’ term. He said that by dividing the ‘gpm’ numerical value by approx 5 will give the true ‘kbps’ value. Dr Maja expects that the “giggles per minute” calculation mechanism will be standardized throughout the industry by the end of 2005.

timbo

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#6179 30-May-2004 18:36

Couple of points:

1. The real reason for 3G in Europe/Japan is lack of 2G sepctrum. But somehow the infrastructure costs of carrying a 3G voice call are far less (like 1/4) than the cost over GSM.

2. I have heard that 3G data rates being achieved in Europe are reliably 200-300kbps while moving. This is of course downlink. Uplink is only 64kbps at first - not sure when this increases.

3. Being CDMA latency will be far lower than GPRS, and similar to CDMA 1X. BTW, latency on Woosh is very similar as well, I belive it is fundamental to the standards, this is why their voice service is in trouble.

4. By the time Vodafone NZ launches 3G many of the bugs/issues will have been ironed out as it will be 18months or so after Europe/Japan.

bluekiwi

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#6183 31-May-2004 02:04

I have followed the Three (www.three.co.uk) service for a while.

Three have annoyed all the existing operators with their voice plans:

NZ $45 for 100 anytime, any network minutes. (15 pounds)
NZ $75 for 500 anytime, any network minutes. (25 pounds)

These are VOICE minutes.

In terms of price, whether you go on a contract or prepay, you pay the same rates. This is the main annoyance point.

Video calls are NZ $1.50 a minute.

Video calling isn't as cool or novel as it might have been perceived a few years ago. I tried it; the novelty has worn off. Although video calling isn't as popular, video streaming or downloading is. Three has a large range of video content and it's nice to store a few videos on the phone and watch them on the bus home.

Essentially, Three have challenged the entire commercial order of mobile phone companies here.

Three had a bad start but now, after 12 months, seem to be getting their service right. The British market is ferociously competitive.

freitasm

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#6185 31-May-2004 07:30

And 3 did not start offering data. At the beginning none of its mobile phones were capable of being used as a modem for laptops/handhelds. And the Bluetooth capable Motorola was released without Bluetooth.

I think Voice is still the killer application in the mobile industry, but the 3G marketing was never focused on better voice quality, but bigger bandwidth.

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