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Wannabe Geek


# 19747 28-Feb-2008 20:23

So I have a cellphone that does GSM 900 / 1800 / 1900 / UMTS 2100 that is currently on Vodafone. Will Telecom's network ever be able to support this? If so how? New SIM card?

Thanks in advance

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  # 113626 28-Feb-2008 20:26
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Yes and no.
 
Telecom's network is a dual band 850 GSM / 2100MHz UMTS network. Your phone would work on Telecom's new network where they roll out 2100MHz UMTS (major cities) but won't work anywhere else in the country where they will only have 850MHz GSM coverage.

To move a phone to Telecom's new network would be a simple matter of inserting a Telecom SIM into the phone.





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Wannabe Geek


  # 113649 28-Feb-2008 21:34

Thanks for the reply. Any news on when this roll out will happen?

 
 
 
 


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  # 113823 29-Feb-2008 17:23
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So does this mean any basic vodafone phone wont easily be able to be switched to telecom? UMTS will be cities only?
I assume a software update cant alter the radio in it?

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  # 113846 29-Feb-2008 19:57
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eXDee: So does this mean any basic vodafone phone wont easily be able to be switched to telecom? UMTS will be cities only?
I assume a software update cant alter the radio in it?


It depends on the phone. There are a lot of GSM and GSM/WCDMA phones out there that do 850MHz GSM. And no, you can't just modify a phone to work on a different frequency.

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  # 114196 2-Mar-2008 19:39
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eXDee: I assume a software update cant alter the radio in it?


The cellular frequency bands that a handset can support are usually determined by the chipset hardware... so a firmware upgrade is not going to help (sorry).

If a phone supports GSM850 or W-CDMA2100 then it can be used with the new TNZ networks, although the extent of the coverage footprint for these GSM vs W-CDMA networks haven't being released by TNZ (yet).

If you have a phone that supports GSM 850, 900, 1800 and W-CDMA 900, 2100 it will give you maximum flexiblity to use with TNZ, Vodafone, NZ Comms. In my opinion if I was buying an new phone in the near future, I'd want this flexibility to ensure that I can switch providers easily to get the best deal.

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  # 114272 3-Mar-2008 06:32
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I wonder if Telecom will also use UMTS850 for their new network. UMTS850 has about the same range as GSM850, but is way more efficient in terms of capacity and it brings a lot of advantages, such like way better indoor coverage than UMTS2100 and broadband data service. On the other hand UMTS850-handsets are rare, so most roaming customers can't get on a UMTS850 network and that means less roaming-income. But actually GSM850-handsets are also not the widely spread and further with Telecom's wide spectrum they could use GSM850 and UMTS850 simultaneously, after a Spanish field test by Huawei, Qualcomm and Telefonica confirmed interoperability of GSM and UMTS in the same spectrum. That again would be more expensive during roll-out, as dualmode infrastructure would be needed, but a GSM850/UMTS2100-strategy would however be antiquated.




router: AVM Fritz!Box Fon 7390 with Huawei K3765 USB modem attached as GSM voice gateway
VoIP-providers: intervoip.com | sipgate.de (German DID) | sipgate.co.uk (British DID) | sipcall.ch (Swiss DID)
connection: 100/5 MBit/s (DOCSIS 3.0)
mobile devices: Huawei P6 | Nokia Lumia 630 Dual SIM | Huawei: E5832, E1762, K3715, K3765 | Qualcomm Gobi 2000 in Sony VAIO VPC-Z12X9E/X

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  # 114273 3-Mar-2008 06:39
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inquisitor: I wonder if Telecom will also use UMTS850 for their new network. UMTS850 has about the same range as GSM850, but is way more efficient in terms of capacity and it brings a lot of advantages, such like way better indoor coverage than UMTS2100 and broadband data service. On the other hand UMTS850-handsets are rare, so most roaming customers can't get on a UMTS850 network and that means less roaming-income. But actually GSM850-handsets are also not the widely spread and further with Telecom's wide spectrum they could use GSM850 and UMTS850 simultaneously, after a Spanish field test by Huawei, Qualcomm and Telefonica confirmed interoperability of GSM and UMTS in the same spectrum. That again would be more expensive during roll-out, as dualmode infrastructure would be needed, but a GSM850/UMTS2100-strategy would however be antiquated.


Telecom's plans are only for GSM850. They simply don't have the bandwidth to run both CDMA + GSM + UMTS in the 800MHz spectrum that they own.

If and when their CDMA network is shut down then maybe they could move towards a UMTS network.

 
 
 
 


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  # 114700 4-Mar-2008 21:18
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sbiddle: Telecom's plans are only for GSM850. They simply don't have the bandwidth to run both CDMA + GSM + UMTS in the 800MHz spectrum that they own.


Never say never... it's amazing what you can fit into 15 MHz, with the right motivation ;-)

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  # 114716 4-Mar-2008 22:21
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Have Telecom already published the name of the network equipment supplier?





router: AVM Fritz!Box Fon 7390 with Huawei K3765 USB modem attached as GSM voice gateway
VoIP-providers: intervoip.com | sipgate.de (German DID) | sipgate.co.uk (British DID) | sipcall.ch (Swiss DID)
connection: 100/5 MBit/s (DOCSIS 3.0)
mobile devices: Huawei P6 | Nokia Lumia 630 Dual SIM | Huawei: E5832, E1762, K3715, K3765 | Qualcomm Gobi 2000 in Sony VAIO VPC-Z12X9E/X

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  # 114717 4-Mar-2008 22:24
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Loftus:
sbiddle: Telecom's plans are only for GSM850. They simply don't have the bandwidth to run both CDMA + GSM + UMTS in the 800MHz spectrum that they own.


Never say never... it's amazing what you can fit into 15 MHz, with the right motivation ;-)


I think it's inevitable that we will see a Telecom 850MHz UMTS network. The technology has been proven by Telstra..

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# 114722 4-Mar-2008 22:46
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inquisitor:

Have Telecom already published the name of the network equipment supplier?



Yes, Alcatel-Lucent has been given the contract.

nzbnw







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  # 114778 5-Mar-2008 09:31
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According to this article Alcatel-Lucent have also successfully tested the coexistence of GSM and UMTS in the same frequency band (900 MHz). I wonder how much spectrum you need for the dual usage of the same band, especially if guard bands are needed and if so how wide they need to be.

Building up a widely spread 3G-infrastructure would make sense for Telecom, since they could keep the whole profit of such investment, whereas the return from investments in ADSL-infrastructure is relatively smaller due to the regulatory obligation to rent lines to other providers, who take part of the profit. Following a wireless broadband strategy and slowing down ADSL-rollout would force customers getting on 3G. For Telecom that means no competitor taking part of the revenue - at least on their own infrastructure.




router: AVM Fritz!Box Fon 7390 with Huawei K3765 USB modem attached as GSM voice gateway
VoIP-providers: intervoip.com | sipgate.de (German DID) | sipgate.co.uk (British DID) | sipcall.ch (Swiss DID)
connection: 100/5 MBit/s (DOCSIS 3.0)
mobile devices: Huawei P6 | Nokia Lumia 630 Dual SIM | Huawei: E5832, E1762, K3715, K3765 | Qualcomm Gobi 2000 in Sony VAIO VPC-Z12X9E/X

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  # 114792 5-Mar-2008 10:33
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inquisitor: According to this article Alcatel-Lucent have also successfully tested the coexistence of GSM and UMTS in the same frequency band (900 MHz). I wonder how much spectrum you need for the dual usage of the same band, especially if guard bands are needed and if so how wide they need to be.



Just FYI incase you're not already aware Vodafone NZ have been deploying a 900MHz UMTS network for quite a while now. Expectations are this network will go live next month and will offer dual 900 GSM / 900 UMTS coverage from the majority of Vodafone NZ's sites. Unlike some of the small scale tests in Europe this will be a live network with great coverage.

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  # 114827 5-Mar-2008 13:50
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Thanks, actually I didn't know that. The technical feasibility of UMTS900 is not an issue anymore (the Alcatel press release linked above is a year old), the reason why there're relatively few UMTS900 rollouts elsewhere in the world is the legal situation, as licenses in most countries regulate not only frequencies, but also the technology. Afaik regarding Europe only Finland and recently France and the UK have allowed their licensees using the 900 MHz band for UMTS.

So VF's UMTS900 network is a huge threat to Telecom, that forces them to deploy UMTS850 very soon. VF have a big advantage, as GSM900 and UMTS900 are nearly identical in range so they can keep all their cellsites locations. I wonder if there's a significant difference between CDMA and GSM/UMTS in terms of cell distance/density, so can Telecom keep their current network design and tower locations?




router: AVM Fritz!Box Fon 7390 with Huawei K3765 USB modem attached as GSM voice gateway
VoIP-providers: intervoip.com | sipgate.de (German DID) | sipgate.co.uk (British DID) | sipcall.ch (Swiss DID)
connection: 100/5 MBit/s (DOCSIS 3.0)
mobile devices: Huawei P6 | Nokia Lumia 630 Dual SIM | Huawei: E5832, E1762, K3715, K3765 | Qualcomm Gobi 2000 in Sony VAIO VPC-Z12X9E/X

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  # 114892 5-Mar-2008 18:52
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inquisitor: So VF's UMTS900 network is a huge threat to Telecom, that forces them to deploy UMTS850 very soon.


I think that's a bit of an over-statement, as TNZ's existing CDMA/EVDO network should provide useful competion in terms of range and performance, compared to VF's new UMTS900 overlay. If nothing else it gives TNZ breathing space to execute a clear long term strategy.

Now that it's possible to deploy advanced networks in the "old" GSM900 & AMPS850 bands, I think it significantly increases the value of those bands for a network operator - especially when you factor in the increased range available per network site. 
If I was on the board of TNZ I would be regretting the loss of that 5 MHz of AMPS spectrum - that would have made a future 850UMTS deployment much easier.

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