Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


skewt

750 posts

Ultimate Geek


#233851 6-May-2018 16:29
Send private message

So I purchased a iPhone from facebook... got blacklisted after just over a month...

 

unpaid contract plan I assume.

 

I'm not super worried, I already purchased another phone so just trying to recoup costs for this one.

 

 

 

But what are my options here?

 

Does the NZ Blacklist carry onto overseas as well? .. Can I sell it to a friend overseas and they will have no issue?

 

Disputes Tribunal is another option, only $40

 

 

 

Its strange. the TCF website currently lists it as blacklisted but it still works fine on 2degrees until it roams to vodafone then its dead till I Airplane ON/OFF, So either 2degrees is slow at updating their blacklist or its only blocked on Vodafone.

 

The person at 2degrees told me that if its blocked due to no payment its only on the original network but I don't believe this to be correct?

 

This sort of thing happens but its frustrating the networks use the blacklist for this purpose when there is zero way to check this at purchase time. Why cant they add a list to the TCF site that says "This phone is under contract."


View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
 1 | 2
wellygary
8323 posts

Uber Geek


  #2008783 6-May-2018 16:39
Send private message

>So I purchased a iPhone from facebook... got blacklisted after just over a month... unpaid contract plan I assume.

 

>......... Can I sell it to a friend overseas and they will have no issue?

 

I am fairly sure that the original T+Cs of the contract the phone was on will give the carrier some sort of legal interest in the phone, from a legal standpoint I am faitly sure this is not extinguished by any "on selling"

 

While it sucks that you have been ripped off by the facebook seller you should contact the police about it,not implict further issues on another....

 

Doing the exact same thing to a "friend" overseas does not sound like something that I would expect a friend to do....

 

 




skewt

750 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2008784 6-May-2018 16:42
Send private message

wellygary:

 

>So I purchased a iPhone from facebook... got blacklisted after just over a month... unpaid contract plan I assume.

 

>......... Can I sell it to a friend overseas and they will have no issue?

 

I am fairly sure that the original T+Cs of the contract the phone was on will give the carrier some sort of legal interest in the phone, from a legal standpoint I am faitly sure this is not extinguished by any "on selling"

 

While it sucks that you have been ripped off by the facebook seller you should contact the police about it,not implict further issues on another....

 

Doing the exact same thing to a "friend" overseas does not sound like something that I would expect a friend to do....

 

 

 

 

I would only to a friend overseas if it was confirmed to be NZ only and I would fully disclosure this to them


jaidevp
331 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted
Spark NZ

  #2008785 6-May-2018 16:43
Send private message

Hi yes since we contribute to the GSMA Blacklist, it will get blacklisted by overseas carriers who participate.  It will also eventually get blacklisted by 2degrees as all carriers in NZ participate in the GSMA blacklisting database.

 

 




freitasm
BDFL - Memuneh
79281 posts

Uber Geek

Administrator
ID Verified
Trusted
Geekzone
Lifetime subscriber

  #2008792 6-May-2018 16:54
Send private message

A bit off topic but I don't understand buying things on Facebook where there's no trust or verification for sellers. Having said that I wouldn't buy a mobile phone on Trade Me neither.





Please support Geekzone by subscribing, or using one of our referral links: Samsung | AliExpress | Wise | Sharesies | Hatch | GoodSyncBackblaze backup


RunningMan
8955 posts

Uber Geek


  #2008804 6-May-2018 17:03
Send private message

skewt:[snip]unpaid contract plan I assume.

 

 

More likely stolen.


skewt

750 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2008869 6-May-2018 18:51
Send private message

RunningMan:

 

skewt:[snip]unpaid contract plan I assume.

 

 

More likely stolen.

 

 

 

 

was an unopened box from an 'unwanted gift'

 

 

 

I'm not too worried.. I picked it up from the guys house and his FB profile contains enough information so I have all his details


Linux
11424 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #2008877 6-May-2018 19:11
Send private message

I would file a police complaint

John

 
 
 
 

Send money globally for less with Wise - one free transfer up to NZ$900 (affiliate link).
hio77
12999 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified
Trusted
Lizard Networks

  #2008885 6-May-2018 19:28
Send private message

File a complaint with the police indeed.

 

 

 

regardless of what happened to the phone, be it unpaid or the more likely; stolen. the device was still sold under false pretenses and they profited off you by doing so.

 

The way the system is abused to onsell devices that will later be blocked is such a horrible situation...





#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

 

 


skewt

750 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2008891 6-May-2018 19:46
Send private message

Will goto Police tomorrow

 

 

 

 


Aredwood
3885 posts

Uber Geek


  #2008954 7-May-2018 01:07

Assuming that the Police say that the phone is not stolen. Check if the phone is listed on the Personal Property Securities register. If not then I would be demanding that the Telco be removing the IMEI block. As they sold the phone "unsecured" And it is their problem that the person they originally provided the phone to, hasn't kept to their side of the contract. If the Telco says that it is under a payment plan, ask them why they didn't put it on the PPSR, as that is what it is for.

There is also this article https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11944268 Which pretty much says that if you have lawful possession of something, for all intents and purposes you are the rightful owner of it.

Since you paid money, and the seller happily handed possession of the phone to you. You are definitely lawfully possessing it. Check the PPSR.

Also read https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=42&topicid=225776&page_no=3





skewt

750 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2009007 7-May-2018 09:33
Send private message

Aredwood: Assuming that the Police say that the phone is not stolen. Check if the phone is listed on the Personal Property Securities register. If not then I would be demanding that the Telco be removing the IMEI block. As they sold the phone "unsecured" And it is their problem that the person they originally provided the phone to, hasn't kept to their side of the contract. If the Telco says that it is under a payment plan, ask them why they didn't put it on the PPSR, as that is what it is for.

There is also this article https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11944268 Which pretty much says that if you have lawful possession of something, for all intents and purposes you are the rightful owner of it.

Since you paid money, and the seller happily handed possession of the phone to you. You are definitely lawfully possessing it. Check the PPSR.....

 

 

 

---

 

 

 

Cheers, thats great advice and will follow that up

 

I don't know who the original telco was, 2degrees told me they couldn't see who added it to the blacklist

 

 

 

(I couldn't quote your post as geekzone kept saying I didnt have the correct tags)


sbiddle
30853 posts

Uber Geek

Retired Mod
Trusted
Biddle Corp
Lifetime subscriber

  #2009037 7-May-2018 09:46
Send private message

I started a blog post about this very issue last year.. In light of the continual posts on here  about this very issue think I should get around to finishing it!

 

In my view telcos are adding devices to the TCF blacklist in breach of the voluntary guidelines for the use of this service - Section 5.3 of the TCF blacklisting code says

 

Blacklisting cannot be used to withhold service or resolve commercial disputes (including bad debt scenarios)

 

 

Using the blacklist to enforce a debt is not compliant with the voluntary policy for use of the service. As mentioned above the Personal Property Securities register is the official place where interests against property should be be lodged.

 

If I were you I'd also contact the TCF and ask why your handset is on their register if it's not lost or stolen - and only blocked because of a bad debt.

 

 


skewt

750 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2009750 8-May-2018 09:56
Send private message

sbiddle:

 

I started a blog post about this very issue last year.. In light of the continual posts on here  about this very issue think I should get around to finishing it!

 

In my view telcos are adding devices to the TCF blacklist in breach of the voluntary guidelines for the use of this service - Section 5.3 of the TCF blacklisting code says

 

Blacklisting cannot be used to withhold service or resolve commercial disputes (including bad debt scenarios)

 

 

Using the blacklist to enforce a debt is not compliant with the voluntary policy for use of the service. As mentioned above the Personal Property Securities register is the official place where interests against property should be be lodged.

 

If I were you I'd also contact the TCF and ask why your handset is on their register if it's not lost or stolen - and only blocked because of a bad debt.

 

 

 

 

I agree that they should not be adding devices to the blacklist because they didn't perform due diligence on the original buyer

 

I have looked into the code and I assume they are flagging it as fraud but will call the TCF 

 

Before an IMEI can be added to the IMEI Database under the category of Fraud a case must satisfy
the burden of proof and the following must apply:
a) There must be documentary and/or other evidence which prima facie supports the
allegation of fraud; and,
b) There must be sufficient evidence to lay a Police complaint, though Code Signatories may
choose when they will or won’t lay a Police complaint


hio77
12999 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified
Trusted
Lizard Networks

  #2009778 8-May-2018 10:24
Send private message

sbiddle:

 

In my view telcos are adding devices to the TCF blacklist in breach of the voluntary guidelines for the use of this service - Section 5.3 of the TCF blacklisting code says

 

 

The code is so akwardly written currently..

 

the fine line between fraud rather than lack of payment is very iffy.





#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

 

 


skewt

750 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2015913 14-May-2018 16:22
Send private message

Just an Update on this...

 

1, Checking the PPSR isn't any good as you cant search by an IMEI. Searching by name isn't always an option. I believe the TCF could offer a secondary database where if you search for an IMEI that is on contract it should display "This phone is currently on contract" - may save many in the resale market but I doubt the telcos could come together on this.

 

2, Talked to the TCF who informed me that after checking with the provider the phone was blacklisted correctly under fraud as "The handset in question was received in line with a 24 month access contract. The phone has never been used in association with that contract and therefore has been fraudulently obtained."

 

3, Talked to the Spark fraud team and forwarded all my details about the person to them, they said I should contact police

 

4, Went to the Police and they are filing a incident for "Obtain By Deception" they now have possession of the phone.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 1 | 2
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic





News and reviews »

Air New Zealand Starts AI adoption with OpenAI
Posted 24-Jul-2025 16:00


eero Pro 7 Review
Posted 23-Jul-2025 12:07


BeeStation Plus Review
Posted 21-Jul-2025 14:21


eero Unveils New Wi-Fi 7 Products in New Zealand
Posted 21-Jul-2025 00:01


WiZ Introduces HDMI Sync Box and other Light Devices
Posted 20-Jul-2025 17:32


RedShield Enhances DDoS and Bot Attack Protection
Posted 20-Jul-2025 17:26


Seagate Ships 30TB Drives
Posted 17-Jul-2025 11:24


Oclean AirPump A10 Water Flosser Review
Posted 13-Jul-2025 11:05


Samsung Galaxy Z Fold7: Raising the Bar for Smartphones
Posted 10-Jul-2025 02:01


Samsung Galaxy Z Flip7 Brings New Edge-To-Edge FlexWindow
Posted 10-Jul-2025 02:01


Epson Launches New AM-C550Z WorkForce Enterprise printer
Posted 9-Jul-2025 18:22


Samsung Releases Smart Monitor M9
Posted 9-Jul-2025 17:46


Nearly Half of Older Kiwis Still Write their Passwords on Paper
Posted 9-Jul-2025 08:42


D-Link 4G+ Cat6 Wi-Fi 6 DWR-933M Mobile Hotspot Review
Posted 1-Jul-2025 11:34


Oppo A5 Series Launches With New Levels of Durability
Posted 30-Jun-2025 10:15









Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.