Reddit Blackout Sees Majority of Site Offline

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469 posts

Ultimate Geek

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#3090702 16-Jun-2023 12:26

A few polls have popped up from big reddit groups asking membres to vote and in all of them the support was massive to keep the reddits completely locked UNTIL the API issue is resolved.

example - interesting, 17k responses but the sub is 5mil+ users

Handsomedan

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#3090710 16-Jun-2023 12:52

Silvrav:

A few polls have popped up from big reddit groups asking membres to vote and in all of them the support was massive to keep the reddits completely locked UNTIL the API issue is resolved.

example - interesting, 17k responses but the sub is 5mil+ users

I think this shows the apathy of the average user.

Power users and Mods are all up in arms about it, but average Johnny on the street wants it to simply work when they want it to and couldn't care less about the politics or business behind it.

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boosacnoodle

963 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3090714 16-Jun-2023 13:01

I think the voting indicates just how engaged power users are and likely suggests that these are the ones making the majority of the posts too.

mudguard

2119 posts

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#3090718 16-Jun-2023 13:10

I must admit I loathe apps for apps sake and use browsers for virtually everything, even on my phone. Are the power users not using a browser or reddit much better on a dedicated app?

Canuckabroad

178 posts

Master Geek

#3090721 16-Jun-2023 13:18

When 60% or 70% of those who respond to a poll (and 16K votes is not immaterial), isn't a refusal to accept the 60% majority vote in r/NZ or the 60% vote in r/Minecraft or other votes as being indicative of the users' preferences likely to be the result of one's individual perspectives and preferences? If 60% of the same number of responses had indicated they wanted the subs to abandon the protest and resume normal operations but the mods rejected that - would that be grounds for complaining that the mods were rejecting the clear voice presented by the polling while 60% wanting to continue protesting is written off as only being an invalid poll?

We always argue about the results of a poll or an election - but going with the collected response is generally the best response to an imperfect system.

Canuckabroad

178 posts

Master Geek

#3090729 16-Jun-2023 13:32

mudguard:

I must admit I loathe apps for apps sake and use browsers for virtually everything, even on my phone. Are the power users not using a browser or reddit much better on a dedicated app?

I don't know if I'd call myself a power user, but I am a regular user and contributor. I too hate using apps - in fact I don't prefer to access by mobile which means I'm probably in the minority these days. The browser experience is better on desktop, but not the mobile browser or the native app for mobile. There are probably quite a lot of casual/recent users who have never tried anything but the Reddit app (or the 'new Reddit' desktop) but there have been very few who started with a 3rd party app and then switched because they had a better experience. One of the concerns being debated here is that if Reddit is now forcing people away from their preferred avenues of accessing the site for financial or other reasons - those who use old.reddit on desktop might find that disappearing as well as the company demonstrates it doesn't really care about what users say about how they want to consume the service.

I would wager the protest is slightly morphing away from the original 'API call pricing killing 3rd party mobile apps' and towards Reddit throwing the finger to its users and the push-back is about their attitude and actions as a whole. It might just be me. I don't use mobile apps to access Reddit very often - my concerns are broader than that.

loceff13

1065 posts

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#3090745 16-Jun-2023 14:19

Canuckabroad:

When 60% or 70% of those who respond to a poll (and 16K votes is not immaterial), isn't a refusal to accept the 60% majority vote in r/NZ or the 60% vote in r/Minecraft or other votes as being indicative of the users' preferences likely to be the result of one's individual perspectives and preferences? If 60% of the same number of responses had indicated they wanted the subs to abandon the protest and resume normal operations but the mods rejected that - would that be grounds for complaining that the mods were rejecting the clear voice presented by the polling while 60% wanting to continue protesting is written off as only being an invalid poll?

We always argue about the results of a poll or an election - but going with the collected response is generally the best response to an imperfect system.

The 100 comment karma requirement to have a valid vote is a bit icky given how many lurkers don't post often on the sub(or only contribute by up/down voting but not commenting). It's like telling the 5 posters in this thread their opinion is invalid because they don't have 100 +1's on their comments here despite some being active here years.

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Canuckabroad

178 posts

Master Geek

#3090748 16-Jun-2023 14:29

loceff13:

The 100 comment karma requirement to have a valid vote is a bit icky given how many lurkers don't post often on the sub(or only contribute by up/down voting but not commenting). It's like telling the 5 posters in this thread their opinion is invalid because they don't have 100 +1's on their comments here despite some being active here years.

I agree that does pose some problems as you mention. I don't believe Reddit gives a lot of alternatives for determining genuine users from someone who used a bot to spin up 50 new accounts to vote in a poll - which is why they are forced to use things like activity. I note that GZ uses a similar approach restricting posting/commenting access to a number of forums to individuals who have sufficient activity - presumably for some of the same reasons. It is genuinely difficult (with the tools normally provided) to measure someone who regularly reads things but rarely/never participates as different than an idle or new account.

tehgerbil

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#3091087 17-Jun-2023 13:21

In an escalation Reddit has reached out to Mods to basically ask any of those who mod a closed sub and disagree with it to backstab their team and get them removed in order to reopen the sub.

Atrocious behavior. Clearly the depths of Steve Huffmans moral depravity are yet to be plumbed.

Reddit:

Hi everyone

We wanted to ensure that you are aware that the API update does not impact moderation bots or sitewide tools to control spam or remove harmful content. You can find more details in this article in our help center. You may have seen posts or received messages from users telling these tools are going away or are somehow impacted, but this is not the case.

We are also aware that some members of your mod team have expressed that they want to close your community indefinitely. We are reaching out to find out if this is the consensus reached by the mod team.

Subreddits exist for the benefit of the community of users who come to them for support and belonging and in the end, moderators are stewards of these spaces and in a position of trust. Your users rely on your community for information, support, entertainment, and finding connection with others who have similar interests. Ensuring that communities are able to remain stable and actively moderated is incredibly important to the people seeking out these spaces to make and foster connections.

If there are mods here who are willing to work towards reopening this community, we are willing to work with you to process a Top Mod Removal request or reorder the mod team to achieve this goal if mods higher up the list are hindering reopening. We would handle this request and any retaliation attempts here in this modmail chain immediately.

Our goal is to work with the existing mod team to find a path forward and make sure your subreddit is made available for the community which makes its home here. If you are not able or willing to reopen and maintain the community, please let us know.

rb99

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#3091089 17-Jun-2023 13:25

If I didn't know better (and I do honest), I'd think Steve Huffman is an anagram of Elon Musk.

“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

rb99

Canuckabroad

178 posts

Master Geek

#3091112 17-Jun-2023 14:46

I noticed that the admins had posted some threatening reminders in Modsupport around how abandoning or failing to moderate your sub could be grounds for having the mod team removed and replaced - with the hint that remaining closed in protest could be interpreted that way. It hasn't been done yet, but the threats are now being made (despite Huffman continuing to tell the media they aren't forcing anyone to open).

loceff13

1065 posts

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#3091231 17-Jun-2023 19:49

tehgerbil:

In an escalation Reddit has reached out to Mods to basically ask any of those who mod a closed sub and disagree with it to backstab their team and get them removed in order to reopen the sub.

Atrocious behavior. Clearly the depths of Steve Huffmans moral depravity are yet to be plumbed.

What's the source of this claim, as for backstabbing their team mods have always been allowed to try to remove the lead mod of their sub if theres a clear majority of mods that want it to happen.

Canuckabroad

178 posts

Master Geek

#3091249 17-Jun-2023 20:46

Always been allowed? It's only in the last couple years that Reddit has changed the original policy where the head mod was in charge and unless they broke Reddit rules nobody would intervene in how they ran their sub. Even now they only get involved in scenarios where the head mod suddenly remove all the other established mods without discussion or unusual circumstances as they expect the lead mod to be a facilitator rather than a dictator.

The source of the claim would be here, from the modsupport forum:

michaelmurfy

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#3091253 17-Jun-2023 21:01

Reddit are building a feature to allow users to vote out mods.

Meanwhile, subreddits involved with the protest are getting creative to obey with the rules for example /r/pics now only allowing John Oliver pics: https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/

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networkn

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#3091281 17-Jun-2023 21:35

It's kind of weird they would spend time building a feature to vote out mods. If they had resources available they could have built out the features used by people in apps like Apollo which would have negated the need for third party products and all this would be moot.

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