nz housing is on the slippery slope of failure.

Forums › Home Workshop DIY › nz housing is on the slippery slope of failure.

tweake

2391 posts

Uber Geek

#317603 29-Oct-2024 17:06

First private business wins step towards consenting, inspecting, approving new buildings

"A Christchurch business has become the first non-Crown entity to gain accreditation to be registered to grant consents, issue code compliance certificates and certify new building works, which has been the sole preserve of councils and a Crown business in the past few years."

PM Christopher Luxon to hold press conference as Government plans for builders to self-certify low-risk work

"Builders will be able to self-certify low-risk work under a new scheme being planned by the Government."

You only have to look at the horror stories coming out of aussie at the moment of how well this works. Siteinspections

self regulation combined with private regulation where the regulators and building industry are able to walk away from, is nails in the coffin for home building. this will be "leaky home syndrome 2.0" and home owners will be the ones caught out and paying for it. this is simply govt/councils washing their hands of liability, while the building industry opens the door for it do whatever it likes without fear of repercussions.

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2797 posts

Uber Geek

#3302810 29-Oct-2024 17:12

It does seem problematic.

Mind you, leaving it in the hands of councils didn't always work well either. And the delays involved with getting council to approve and inspect work are a significant element in the ludicrous cost of building in NZ.

mattwnz

20147 posts

Uber Geek

#3302812 29-Oct-2024 17:19

Lets just say I don't think it is going to end well, especially when BCOs pick up so many defects when they do inspections, and they have to be physically onsite to pick up defects. History often repeats. Consumers are going to lose out imo, especially when there is still no mandatory 10 year building guarantee in NZ to protect consumers. It also looks like it will benefit big building franchises and gives them the opportunity to increase their margins and will make it more difficult for small builders who could end up with higher compliance costs. The big problem with costs IMO is materials due to a lack of competition and land being drip fed into the market . Inspections are a relatively small cost

johno1234

2797 posts

Uber Geek

#3302818 29-Oct-2024 17:45

Inspections are a small cost. Delays waiting on an inspection are a big cost. Auckland council has mandatory timeframes to respond to inspections and if they come back with a question it restarts the clock. The number if times they've asked a nonsensical question... which can only be to put us off and buy them some more time. Meanwhile, the house is still not complete, or even closed in so costs accumulate for all sorts of things including interest, scaffolding and site security and so on. Have had this issue on several projects over the last decade or two.

tweake

2391 posts

Uber Geek

#3302820 29-Oct-2024 17:49

johno1234:

Mind you, leaving it in the hands of councils didn't always work well either.

yes, but at least councils can't fold up and disappear. thats the saving grace of nz system. councils can't disappear and they are public money which rate payers get rather annoyed at them wasting bailing out shoddy builders.

when those homes start to fail, those companies will fold in a heart beat and home owners will be stuck with the repair bill.

there was a case in red beach where they went to do a reno and found the foundation was done so badly the house was demolished. there was even a note inside a wall saying the builder short cut the foundations.

unlike leaky homes where most of the issues was around an easy to see style of homes and products, this sort of problem will be in every single style and type of house. once they start to fail, you just watch how fast banks restrict lending, interest rates will go up to cover the risk, and owners who can't sell. thats a catastrophic situation.

just look at eifs houses. even the new ones, which are perfectly fine, they are all tainted and are the bottom end of the market. imagen that being every home built after 2024.

don't expect 10 year warranty or any warranty to save you. just look at badly that works. they do everything to avoid fixing it or will do endless cheap band aids until 10 years is up.

Eva888

2429 posts

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Lifetime subscriber

#3302830 29-Oct-2024 18:28

I would be happy to hire an independent inspector to conduct inspections before each payment tranche to the builder. That way I’m in control and not at the Councils mercy. Probably way cheaper too.

cruxis

481 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3302878 29-Oct-2024 18:37

How would one go now about protecting themselves?

Maybe write into the build contract, to allow of the purchaser to get their own inspections done at various stages and at anytime of the build at there own cost.

eltheanine

4 posts

Wannabe Geek

#3302887 29-Oct-2024 19:16

Eva888:

I would be happy to hire an independent inspector to conduct inspections before each payment tranche to the builder. That way I’m in control and not at the Councils mercy. Probably way cheaper too.

Good idea.

We paid builders to project manage an almost entire house reno and sort all the subbies etc. We should have managed it ourselves because we had to keep correcting things that were on the plans and documentation but they kept missing, among other things they missed and forgot along the way. Luckily we had done a couple of smaller renovations ourselves so have a few clues - probably makes us annoying clients, but we know what the result should be.

Hiring an independent inspector would be cheap insurance to not have to re-do stuff. Any builder not taking shortcuts should have no problem with this.

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tweake

2391 posts

Uber Geek

#3302890 29-Oct-2024 19:38

Eva888:

I would be happy to hire an independent inspector to conduct inspections before each payment tranche to the builder. That way I’m in control and not at the Councils mercy. Probably way cheaper too.

couple of issues i see with that is private inspectors are not licensed in any way, unlike builders. its wild west with inspectors out there. mate had a cowboy years ago who pretty much faked the report.

2nd is that they are all mates with the builders work they are checking. you cannot assume that they work for your best interests. its a problem with council inspectors as well, but at least they can't run and hide when things go bad.

boosacnoodle

963 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3302905 29-Oct-2024 20:39

tweake:

yes, but at least councils can't fold up and disappear. thats the saving grace of nz system. councils can't disappear and they are public money which rate payers get rather annoyed at them wasting bailing out shoddy builders.

I don't think Councils are Crown guaranteed in NZ, are they? They have their own credit ratings.

tweake

2391 posts

Uber Geek

#3302913 29-Oct-2024 21:06

boosacnoodle:

I don't think Councils are Crown guaranteed in NZ, are they? They have their own credit ratings.

i wasn't referring to that.

when the leaky home syndrome first started, builders etc disappeared and that left councils as last man standing. they can't run away like everyone else so they are forced to deal with the issue. yay from the homeowners.

it was proposed a little while back to reduce councils liability for building failures, to cut costs to ratepayers etc, as cost for leaky homes are still going on 30+ years later. this privatization of councils work is simply to enable that to happen. off load the liability to others who can disappear taking the liability with them.

remember that subdivision the council bought out because it was all screwed up, that wouldn't happen. people would have to fight it out in court and the companies involved would simply close and walk away. well most likely start up again under a different name. no council buy out, the homeowners gets screwed over big time.

Eva888

2429 posts

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Lifetime subscriber

#3302916 29-Oct-2024 21:09

tweake:

Eva888:

I would be happy to hire an independent inspector to conduct inspections before each payment tranche to the builder. That way I’m in control and not at the Councils mercy. Probably way cheaper too.

couple of issues i see with that is private inspectors are not licensed in any way, unlike builders. its wild west with inspectors out there. mate had a cowboy years ago who pretty much faked the report.

2nd is that they are all mates with the builders work they are checking. you cannot assume that they work for your best interests. its a problem with council inspectors as well, but at least they can't run and hide when things go bad.

I would always choose a LnB licensed builder as an inspector. Really what you are most interested in is compliance and quality of workmanship and materials to be the correct specs for the job. No skimping on the cement, correct spacing of studs, joists etc. Banks are going to require some form of satisfaction before they release tranches and the builder will know that. My experience has been when you hire someone to look for problems, they tend to find them.

tweake

2391 posts

Uber Geek

#3302917 29-Oct-2024 21:17

Eva888:

I would always choose a LnB licensed builder as an inspector. Really what you are most interested in is compliance and quality of workmanship and materials to be the correct specs for the job. No skimping on the cement, correct spacing of studs, joists etc. Banks are going to require some form of satisfaction before they release tranches and the builder will know that. My experience has been when you hire someone to look for problems, they tend to find them.

what do you think will disappear once they become self regulating and self inspecting. your licensed builder inspector will be looking after his mates, as they look after him. its the fox guarding the hen house. your asking a fox to inspect the fox guarding the hen house.

mattwnz

20147 posts

Uber Geek

#3302951 30-Oct-2024 02:53

johno1234:

Inspections are a small cost. Delays waiting on an inspection are a big cost. Auckland council has mandatory timeframes to respond to inspections and if they come back with a question it restarts the clock. The number if times they've asked a nonsensical question... which can only be to put us off and buy them some more time. Meanwhile, the house is still not complete, or even closed in so costs accumulate for all sorts of things including interest, scaffolding and site security and so on. Have had this issue on several projects over the last decade or two.

It shouldn't restart the clock, it should pause the clock, and then it will restart again from the time it was paused. It sounds like that could be more an issue in Auckland during a building boom, and not hiring enough staff.

mattwnz

20147 posts

Uber Geek

#3302952 30-Oct-2024 02:55

Eva888:

I would be happy to hire an independent inspector to conduct inspections before each payment tranche to the builder. That way I’m in control and not at the Councils mercy. Probably way cheaper too.

The issue is if the builder doesn't agree with your own inspector. IANAL but I would think you would have to have that written into your contact that they inspector has the final say and would override the builders opinion.

Handle9

11386 posts

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Trusted

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#3302953 30-Oct-2024 03:56

mattwnz:

Eva888:

I would be happy to hire an independent inspector to conduct inspections before each payment tranche to the builder. That way I’m in control and not at the Councils mercy. Probably way cheaper too.

The issue is if the builder doesn't agree with your own inspector. IANAL but I would think you would have to have that written into your contact that they inspector has the final say and would override the builders opinion.

No contractor would agree to that.

The contractor should demonstrate compliance with the contract and there is generally an arbitration clause in line with the CCA when there is a disagreement whether they have complied or not.

Progress claims are a separate topic and dependant on the CCA and payment schedules. There is a defined process within the CCA to manage claim disputes.

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