Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | ... | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23
thoreau
28 posts

Geek


  #3065934 20-Apr-2023 09:54
Send private message

billgates:

 

Octopus has now removed the no daily charge rate offer for low user and at least for Hamilton, the daily rate is now $1.04.

 

 

Yes with the new rates they have and coming off our one year fixed term with them soon, this will equate to a price hike of more than 60%.  :-(


Silvrav
469 posts

Ultimate Geek

ID Verified

  #3065935 20-Apr-2023 10:00
Send private message

Wonder what will happen when the government limit is removed come 2027 - open season for all providers?


Stu

Stu
Hammered
8340 posts

Uber Geek

Moderator
ID Verified
Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #3066045 20-Apr-2023 13:50
Send private message

billgates: Octopus has now removed the no daily charge rate offer for low user and at least for Hamilton, the daily rate is now $1.04.


Pretty sure the daily rate for Standard User has also gone up where we are, since I checked prices a few weeks ago.

Will try and remember to check my spreadsheet later.




People often mistake me for an adult because of my age.

 

 

Keep calm, and carry on posting.

 

 

Referral Links: Sharesies - Backblaze

 

Are you happy with what you get from Geekzone? If so, please consider supporting us by subscribing.

 

No matter where you go, there you are.


AklBen
102 posts

Master Geek


  #3066067 20-Apr-2023 14:58
Send private message

I am fine with a higher daily charge - as long as the variable kWh rates reflect that.

 

When retailers increased their low user daily charge from the ~34c mark to around ~65c the var rates dropped by 5-10c. If there is not reduction in the var rate when they move to around $1 per day then we're getting screwed. 

 

As many of the retailers are no longer doing fixed terms that come with big credits or discounts, it is pretty easy to just move on if you can go to a retailer who's actually adjusting var rates.


Scott3

3970 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #3066089 20-Apr-2023 15:40
Send private message

Revisiting this, and I am very glad that I signed up a two year fixed price roughly a year ago.

 

If I had of gone with Octapus, I would be coming off my fixed price year now, Just checked their prices for my address. It is substantially higher than what they were a year ago. Unclear if this is just their opening special ending, Or if power price inflation / wholesale costs are running really high.

 

Silvrav:

 

Wonder what will happen when the government limit is removed come 2027 - open season for all providers?

 

 

I imagine most providers will ditch their low user plans once they are no longer mandated, hence only offering standard like plans. Of course nothing to stop a power company offering low daily rates if they like.

 

In theory this will offer a better outcome. No longer will standard user households be forced to subsidize low user household. Historically low user plans were introduced as a social policy to support low income households, however we now know that the targeting was quite poor (socialy deprived groups are more likely to have larger household sizes, and hence use more power per household. The wealthy are more likely to live in modern well insulated housing, to have efficient appliances, spend more time away from home on holiday, or have solar. Also subsidizes many who use gas, quite the opposite behavior to what we want to encourage).

 

 

 

Sadly the current rate of power inflation is such that despite this phase out, standard user power costs are rising regardless.


thoreau
28 posts

Geek


  #3066111 20-Apr-2023 16:16
Send private message

Has anyone ever managed to negotiate a higher buy back rate with one of the electricity companies? Might be a non starter?

Scott3

3970 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #3066144 20-Apr-2023 17:28
Send private message

thoreau: Has anyone ever managed to negotiate a higher buy back rate with one of the electricity companies? Might be a non starter?

 

Don't have solar, so can't comment on that specifically, but in general the opportunity for negotiation is low.

 

Best I have had is when I got a quote from a power company a few years back (they asked for my email address before giving the price on their website). When I abandoned my cart, they emailed me the next deal offering me a better, non-published rate.


HarmLessSolutions
974 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

  #3066182 20-Apr-2023 18:53
Send private message

AklBen:

 

I am fine with a higher daily charge - as long as the variable kWh rates reflect that.

 

When retailers increased their low user daily charge from the ~34c mark to around ~65c the var rates dropped by 5-10c. If there is not reduction in the var rate when they move to around $1 per day then we're getting screwed. 

 

As many of the retailers are no longer doing fixed terms that come with big credits or discounts, it is pretty easy to just move on if you can go to a retailer who's actually adjusting var rates.

 

What you're witnessing is the progression of the electricity utilies' 'death spiral' which has long been predicted internationally. The power retailers have no choice than to raise their charges by whatever means they think will work in order to finance the maintenance of their distribution infrastructure while electricity demand is eroded by increasing levels of self generation resulting from PV and battery storage adoption. These price increases in turn make distributed generation installations more economically viable by improving their ROI. Fixed daily charges are the best weapon they can muster in retaliation.

 

Add to that EV ownership which increases demand beyond what most PV systems are capable of supporting so their customers aren't able to disconnect from the grid altogether so rely on this as a supply 'safety net' which they still work towards minimising use of by way of storage batteries and TOU preferential charging, as V2H/G looms on the horizon and the electricity utilities are caught in a rock or hard place situation.

 

We indeed live in interesting times. Just be aware of the big picture to best advantage from the situation yourself.





https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/


FailedWOF
45 posts

Geek


  #3066321 21-Apr-2023 00:59
Send private message

I switched to Electric Kiwi Move Master after many years with Powershop around this time last year as the they came up cheapest in my 6-monthly comparison. However, after two hikes over the last 12 months (most recently in December) and coming into winter it was time for another comparison. Upshot, I've just switched over to Flick Off Peak.

 

Running the comparison, I worked out Flick will save me at least $100-$120/month. It will likely be more, as EK applies their Peak/Shoulder/Off Peak rates across all 7 days whereas Flick's off peak rate applies all weekend. There's a slight different in the peak timings (Flick stays in the morning peak 2 hours longer), but with the off peak rate then kicking in until 5pm instead of EK's shoulder rate it more than offsets the extra 2 hours.

 

 

Flick's daily rate is higher, but again the kWh savings more than offset this. With Flick, 71% of my consumption will fall into the cheapest off peak rate, compared to only 26% with EK (albeit another 4% $0 rated with their daily free hour of power).


AklBen
102 posts

Master Geek


  #3066342 21-Apr-2023 08:25
Send private message

HarmLessSolutions: The power retailers have no choice than to raise their charges by whatever means they think will work in order to finance the maintenance of their distribution infrastructure while electricity demand is eroded by increasing levels of self generation resulting from PV and battery storage adoption. These price increases in turn make distributed generation installations more economically viable by improving their ROI. Fixed daily charges are the best weapon they can muster in retaliation.

 

That isn't entirely true. The reason why fixed charges increase is because the original networks need upgrading because of an increase in demand. If demand was the same or decreased - we wouldn't see that. Also, while we all get 'one bill' retailers here are not responsible for the networks' distribution pricing. That pricing is calculated and managed separately.

 

Batteries, PVs aside - we're all going to know about it when an entire street attempts to charge their EVs all at the same time.


AklBen
102 posts

Master Geek


  #3066349 21-Apr-2023 08:36
Send private message

@failedwof - Flick's pricing is quite good at the moment. EK's pricing is an absolute joke - I feel sorry for people who are sucked in by their marketing thinking they're getting a great deal.


Scott3

3970 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #3066372 21-Apr-2023 08:57
Send private message

HarmLessSolutions:

 

What you're witnessing is the progression of the electricity utilies' 'death spiral' which has long been predicted internationally. The power retailers have no choice than to raise their charges by whatever means they think will work in order to finance the maintenance of their distribution infrastructure while electricity demand is eroded by increasing levels of self generation resulting from PV and battery storage adoption. These price increases in turn make distributed generation installations more economically viable by improving their ROI. Fixed daily charges are the best weapon they can muster in retaliation.

 

Add to that EV ownership which increases demand beyond what most PV systems are capable of supporting so their customers aren't able to disconnect from the grid altogether so rely on this as a supply 'safety net' which they still work towards minimising use of by way of storage batteries and TOU preferential charging, as V2H/G looms on the horizon and the electricity utilities are caught in a rock or hard place situation.

 

We indeed live in interesting times. Just be aware of the big picture to best advantage from the situation yourself.

 

 

There is not really any evidence of any decline in electricity generation NZ, rather we have been stuck in a fairly level pattern since around 2007. Increases in electricity use efficiency (i.e. the move from incandescent bulbs to fluro / LED lighting), and reduction in NZ industry has roughly been offset by increases in population and the move of more stuff to electric (i.e. fireplace replaced with heat pump).

 

The graph below is a few years behind the times, but the numbers for 2020 is 42,858, and 2021 is 43,267GWh, so the trend isn't broken.

 

 

 

undefined

 

If anything, the move from fossil fuels to electricity over the coming years will see an uptick in electricity consumption. Industrial heat alone would need us to double our generation capacity. Add the move of transport to electricity, and the move away from in residential / commercial gas use for space / water heating, cooking etc. Very unlikely growth in small scale solar will offset this.

 

 

 

 

 

On the increase in low user daily fee's, this is simply part due to the phase out of mandatory low daily fee low user pans. This policy was intended to benefit low income households, but it turns out that it was poorly targeted, and ended up largely benefiting other groups (People who spend a lot of time away from home / on holiday, those with small household sizes, those with modern homes, those with solar PV systems). This ends the cross subsidy from standard users to low users.

 

Fixed daily charges are hardly a weapon. Rather a reflection of the cost of having capacity available regardless of whether it is used. Grid tied solar systems do negligible to reduce demand at the peak time for residential use (Evenings in a bad weather mid winter cold snap. The sun is down, and it is likely that even solar customers with batteries will be drawing off the grid, unless their system is massively over sized for the rest of the year). Collecting money by a per kWh charge to cover fixed costs doesn't really work when customers are getting the bulk of their power form their solar system.

 

All the above is fine of course, but it is reasonable for, well all customers to pay a daily fee to cover the fixed costs of having electrical capacity allocated to them. Of course going off grid is always an option, but in general, a grid connection offers great value.

 

 

 

An argument could be made that NZ should join the long list of countries that have policies intending to subsidize / cross subsidize solar (feed in tariff's etc). However NZ has an unusually green grid, and is spoilt in terms of grid scale renewable resources that are often more economic that home solar. Personally think we should just be focusing on keeping power prices low (not working out so well atm), and greening out utility scale generation.


AklBen
102 posts

Master Geek


  #3066378 21-Apr-2023 09:24
Send private message

^ yep. I cannot see that if industry moves away from fossil fuel heating, data centres get constructed, people electrify heating in homes, developments no longer install LPG units AND people flock to EVs that electricity consumption in this country is going to decline....


  #3066390 21-Apr-2023 10:03
Send private message

AklBen:

 

HarmLessSolutions: The power retailers have no choice than to raise their charges by whatever means they think will work in order to finance the maintenance of their distribution infrastructure while electricity demand is eroded by increasing levels of self generation resulting from PV and battery storage adoption. These price increases in turn make distributed generation installations more economically viable by improving their ROI. Fixed daily charges are the best weapon they can muster in retaliation.

 

That isn't entirely true. The reason why fixed charges increase is because the original networks need upgrading because of an increase in demand. If demand was the same or decreased - we wouldn't see that. Also, while we all get 'one bill' retailers here are not responsible for the networks' distribution pricing. That pricing is calculated and managed separately.

 

Batteries, PVs aside - we're all going to know about it when an entire street attempts to charge their EVs all at the same time.

 

 

The "Low Usage" low fixed charge was a political construct that completely ignores the reality of electricity distribution networks.

 

It was introduced as a result of a Green Party campaign which said that high fixed charges and lower per-kWh charges disincentivised energy savings, which is not untrue. When this was overlaid with the "poor old granny can't afford food because of high daily electricity charges", it was politically unstoppable.

 

The truth of the matter is that it costs your local electricity distribution company pretty much exactly the same to supply your (standard 63A single phase) residential connection whether you've got your oven and old-style electric hot water service running flat out 24/7 and drawing 60A all day, or have PV & a battery and a wetback stove for hot water, so only use the grid connection very lightly and occasionally.

 

The "Low Usage" fixed charge regime was and still is a subsidy from medium and high users to low users. The sooner it stops the better.
If a government wants to alleviate 'energy poverty', it needs to come up with better ways of doing it.
BTW, I'm one of those low users for the last fifteen or twenty years, so I've been getting the benefit. I still say it's a Bad Thing


FailedWOF
45 posts

Geek


  #3066578 21-Apr-2023 15:55
Send private message

AklBen:

 

@failedwof - Flick's pricing is quite good at the moment. EK's pricing is an absolute joke - I feel sorry for people who are sucked in by their marketing thinking they're getting a great deal.

 

 

EK were significantly competitive against Powershop (my incumbent at the time) and the big 5 (now big 4) when I churned in March last year. But two significant hikes have completely eroded that edge. So yeah, they sucked everyone in with their marketing and cheap rates then cranked them up pretty quickly.

 


 

The bigger joke is that in their last hike email they blamed "record prices for wholesale electricity and record profits for generators" when I can't see any evidence in the the Electricity Authority simple average and demand weighted average wholesale price per MWh data (viewable here https://www.emi.ea.govt.nz/Wholesale/Dashboards/VYBQKY?_si=db|VYBQKY,dri|1003,v|2) to support that claim over the preceeding 12 months (and even now in Q1 2023).

 

No care factor on the churn either, but so far I've never found "retention" to be a thing with any B2C provider in NZ. Just an email asking if I'm sure and a k, thanks, bye.


1 | ... | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic



News and reviews »

Air New Zealand Starts AI adoption with OpenAI
Posted 24-Jul-2025 16:00


eero Pro 7 Review
Posted 23-Jul-2025 12:07


BeeStation Plus Review
Posted 21-Jul-2025 14:21


eero Unveils New Wi-Fi 7 Products in New Zealand
Posted 21-Jul-2025 00:01


WiZ Introduces HDMI Sync Box and other Light Devices
Posted 20-Jul-2025 17:32


RedShield Enhances DDoS and Bot Attack Protection
Posted 20-Jul-2025 17:26


Seagate Ships 30TB Drives
Posted 17-Jul-2025 11:24


Oclean AirPump A10 Water Flosser Review
Posted 13-Jul-2025 11:05


Samsung Galaxy Z Fold7: Raising the Bar for Smartphones
Posted 10-Jul-2025 02:01


Samsung Galaxy Z Flip7 Brings New Edge-To-Edge FlexWindow
Posted 10-Jul-2025 02:01


Epson Launches New AM-C550Z WorkForce Enterprise printer
Posted 9-Jul-2025 18:22


Samsung Releases Smart Monitor M9
Posted 9-Jul-2025 17:46


Nearly Half of Older Kiwis Still Write their Passwords on Paper
Posted 9-Jul-2025 08:42


D-Link 4G+ Cat6 Wi-Fi 6 DWR-933M Mobile Hotspot Review
Posted 1-Jul-2025 11:34


Oppo A5 Series Launches With New Levels of Durability
Posted 30-Jun-2025 10:15



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.