UPVC windows?

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265 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1636357 20-Sep-2016 09:19

For what it's worth, I'm getting several measures & quotes today. I'll be able to report back in a while. And extra info- the house is in Auckland.

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xontech

268 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1636441 20-Sep-2016 10:46

mattwnz:

Swanny:

We were keen as they were more like what my wife was used to. Sales guy said they were same price at thermal broken double glazing, in the end that was wrong. Our quote was 28k or something, theirs 35k. Got quite snarky when we said we weren't going to get them. Very unprofessional.

So PVC were a lot more than Aluminium Thermally broken? I was told by a window company selling aluminium windows, that going to Low E glass will provide a larger energy benefit for your dollar, than going for thermally broken windows.

Something I found when doing my research is that with non-thermally broken aluminium windows you won't get condensation on the glass, but you (still?) will get condensation on the frames.

When going to the trouble and expense of replacing windows with double glazing, I don't see why you wouldn't go for thermally broken frames?

timmmay

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#1636496 20-Sep-2016 12:27

Thermally broken frames cost more than without. PVC are meant to be priced between the two aluminium options, but I've never checked that.

mattwnz

20164 posts

Uber Geek

#1636527 20-Sep-2016 13:31

timmmay:

Thermally broken frames cost more than without. PVC are meant to be priced between the two aluminium options, but I've never checked that.

I was told thermally broken alum are around 30% more than non thermally broken alum. Although to be honest I don't know why they are that much more as they are exactly the same depth etc as the non thermally broken version. I would expect pricing to drop as more and more people shift to them.. Not sure about PVC pricing, but there don't appear to be as many manufacturers to choose from to compare pricing between PVC manufacturers.

mattwnz

20164 posts

Uber Geek

#1636528 20-Sep-2016 13:37

xontech:

mattwnz:

Swanny:

We were keen as they were more like what my wife was used to. Sales guy said they were same price at thermal broken double glazing, in the end that was wrong. Our quote was 28k or something, theirs 35k. Got quite snarky when we said we weren't going to get them. Very unprofessional.

So PVC were a lot more than Aluminium Thermally broken? I was told by a window company selling aluminium windows, that going to Low E glass will provide a larger energy benefit for your dollar, than going for thermally broken windows.

Something I found when doing my research is that with non-thermally broken aluminium windows you won't get condensation on the glass, but you (still?) will get condensation on the frames.

When going to the trouble and expense of replacing windows with double glazing, I don't see why you wouldn't go for thermally broken frames?

You don't usually get condensation on the glass with double glazing. If you do you probably have a ventilation problem, eg open some windows. If that was the case though you will get condensation on other cold surfaces such as poorly insulated wall surfaces, which can then lead to mould. So you do't want to be shifting the condensation from the glass to wall linings. You can get condensation on non thermally broken frames, but probably worst in bathrooms and bedrooms, and kitchens. But was told you can still get condensation on thermally broken frames. But this is usually worse in new homes for the first 6 months, as there is still quite a bit of moisture in building materials. It is interesting though, because the aluminium manufacturer I talked to didn't really highlight reduced condensation as being a major reason to get thermally broken frames. Infact they tried to talk me out of them because of the higher additional cost.

richms

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#1636580 20-Sep-2016 15:07

mattwnz:

You don't usually get condensation on the glass with double glazing. If you do you probably have a ventilation problem, eg open some windows. If that was the case though you will get condensation on other cold surfaces such as poorly insulated wall surfaces, which can then lead to mould. So you do't want to be shifting the condensation from the glass to wall linings. You can get condensation on non thermally broken frames, but probably worst in bathrooms and bedrooms, and kitchens. But was told you can still get condensation on thermally broken frames. But this is usually worse in new homes for the first 6 months, as there is still quite a bit of moisture in building materials. It is interesting though, because the aluminium manufacturer I talked to didn't really highlight reduced condensation as being a major reason to get thermally broken frames. Infact they tried to talk me out of them because of the higher additional cost.

Probably got a whole lot of non broken extrusion that they cannot move or something.

Richard rich.ms

jmh

458 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1636592 20-Sep-2016 15:17

I found it really frustrating when I moved into a flat with aluminium double glazing. No dampness on the glass but dripping from the aluminium. So much so that the curtains had mold exactly where the aluminium cross bar was but not where the glass was, within 3 months. Having had UPVC in the UK which had no damp at all, it was disappointing. I assume it had no thermal break, although not sure as I didn't have them fitted.

My cousin recently had UPVC fitted and is very happy. The UPVC I had in the UK was fitted into the wooden frames because they were in good nick and had a traditional design that was attractive. It worked really well and looked nice too.

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mattwnz

20164 posts

Uber Geek

#1636598 20-Sep-2016 15:28

jmh:

I found it really frustrating when I moved into a flat with aluminium double glazing. No dampness on the glass but dripping from the aluminium. So much so that the curtains had mold exactly where the aluminium cross bar was but not where the glass was, within 3 months. Having had UPVC in the UK which had no damp at all, it was disappointing. I assume it had no thermal break, although not sure as I didn't have them fitted.

My cousin recently had UPVC fitted and is very happy. The UPVC I had in the UK was fitted into the wooden frames because they were in good nick and had a traditional design that was attractive. It worked really well and looked nice too.

Thermally broken aluminium should fix that too. But ventilation is also needed with all windows. Problem is that many NZers don't ventilate their houses adequately, so are just sealing in the moisture.

gchiu

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#1636895 20-Sep-2016 21:49

I'm thinking of installing uPVC windows as well to replace broken sash windows.

Did the people who installed uPVC get Rutile with a minimum of 8 parts per hundred of PVC resin which seems to be the WANZ standard?

http://www.wanz.co.nz/upvc-windows-for-new-zealand-conditions

Swanny

107 posts

Master Geek

#1636961 21-Sep-2016 00:40

PVC was 35k, our TB double glazing was 28.5k. There was a significant difference in the sliding doors, the TB being much more substantial, ours were called Eurostackers or something (and we know anything with euro in it is already more expensive).

I remember that decision was a turning point in the build where we started saying no to the changes we wanted....

Swanny

107 posts

Master Geek

#1636975 21-Sep-2016 03:53

Swanny:

PVC was 35k, our TB double glazing was 28.5k.

I remember that decision was a turning point in the build where we started saying no to the changes we wanted....

Can't seem to edit so will try again:

Regarding standard double glazing vs thermally broken:

There was a significant difference in the sliding doors, the thermally broken being much more substantial, ours were called Eurostackers or something (and we know anything with euro in it is already more expensive).

SATTV

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#1636998 21-Sep-2016 07:50

For us it was 13 windows and 3 doors, all double glazed with argon gas.

uPVC = 28k incl installation

Aluminum Just windows $40k

TB Aluminum +40%

We could not get one company to quote for aluminum, I contacted more than 20 and there were only two or three with install crews, everyone else said they will only supply them and we needed our own builder. I dont know any builders I trust to do this.

One Aluminum guy walked in and said "oh you have pelmits, cant be done" and walked out.

John

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neb

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#2385031 4-Jan-2020 16:21

As part of the Casa de Cowboy refit which I've mentioned a few times in the past, we're going to be putting in uPVC windows and two doors, specifically a three-panel stacker door (one panel fixed, two sliding) and a ranch slider-type door (one sliding, one fixed). The general idea is white uPVC outer, alu inner, and double glazed, which looks like it's available from 95% of the companies doing uPVC in NZ, all of which seem to be along vaguely the same lines, some German-engineered original specially adapted just by them for NZ conditions. This is for a basement area in a coastal region, not much wind but some salt spray, and since it'll provide concealed access to the house it should be openable from the inside only, i.e. a pull handle on the outside but no more.

Given all of the vaguely-equivalent product that's available, does anyone have any reccos for who/what to go for? From previous threads a couple of people have already gone with uPVC, it'd be interesting to hear good/bad experiences.

Jonski

265 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2385115 4-Jan-2020 19:38

neb:

Given all of the vaguely-equivalent product that's available, does anyone have any reccos for who/what to go for? From previous threads a couple of people have already gone with uPVC, it'd be interesting to hear good/bad experiences.

Warm Windows. Very competent. Uses German PVC, with the Tropical mix for extra UV proofing. We used them and are totally pleased with the decision. There were a couple of small installation niggles (one window was reversed but quickly fixed with no fuss) but nothing that put me off them.

From what I hear, Homerit (silly name, pronounced Home-right) uses Chinese PVC and this is not as UV stable. Slightly cheaper.

Note: You can't reliably paint uPVC despite what my painter promised. You can vinyl wrap it at enormous cost and additional lead time. If your're doing this, I would ask if you can have only the outside wrapped. We went from black Al framing to white internally and it looks so much nicer looking out from within.

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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mrfee

20 posts

Geek

#2385117 4-Jan-2020 19:57

I would second Warm Windows. We had two windows and french doors installed as part of a recent extension and are very happy with the final result as well as the process we followed to get there. We went with argon filled low E glazing as if I recall correctly the difference in price wasnt massive compared to the standard glass.

We are planning on replacing the existing windows with Warm Windows as time and budget allow.

The difference in both sound isolation and heat conductance between these and the existing wooden frames (as you would expect) is staggering. The first night they were fitted we had condensation on the outside surface of the glass which was a totally new concept to me and an indication of how well the double glazing was working at keeping the heat inside.

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