Load bearing wall? Looking for builders opinions

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wellygary

8323 posts

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#1888295 23-Oct-2017 22:37

Jeeze, the fact that all those rafters should be parallel ( and likely at an even height and distance) just shows how deceptive real estate agent photos taken with super fisheye lenses have become :)

Aredwood

3885 posts

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#1888301 23-Oct-2017 23:34

Is it me or is that fireplace just sitting in the middle of the room? As looking at the rafters in relation to the brick chimney, there seems to be a big space behind the fireplace. If so then it means that a few walls have probably already been removed before by previous owners of that house.

As for bracing and earthquake risks - that now freestanding brick chimney will be the far higher risk, I would remove it ASAP - a relatively easy although messy job to do. I hope you checked that house for unconsented building work before buying it. But if the changes were done before 1992, the council couldn't care less.

That house is a similar age to mine - same design of lounge ceiling. You will find that there will probably be 0 ceiling insulation. As for bracing, my house has a 4x4 post, that has been chopped into sections, so it can be installed on a 45 angle between the nogs and studs in a load bearing wall. It has only been hand nailed into place. Any earthquake would just laugh at it.

mattwnz

20157 posts

Uber Geek

#1888305 23-Oct-2017 23:55

Aredwood:

Is it me or is that fireplace just sitting in the middle of the room? As looking at the rafters in relation to the brick chimney, there seems to be a big space behind the fireplace. If so then it means that a few walls have probably already been removed before by previous owners of that house.

As for bracing and earthquake risks - that now freestanding brick chimney will be the far higher risk, I would remove it ASAP - a relatively easy although messy job to do. I hope you checked that house for unconsented building work before buying it. But if the changes were done before 1992, the council couldn't care less.

That house is a similar age to mine - same design of lounge ceiling. You will find that there will probably be 0 ceiling insulation. As for bracing, my house has a 4x4 post, that has been chopped into sections, so it can be installed on a 45 angle between the nogs and studs in a load bearing wall. It has only been hand nailed into place. Any earthquake would just laugh at it.

I think it is partly a really bad wide angle photo that agents use to make the rooms look huge. I think those photos should be banned as they don't give a an accurate representation. At least with open rafter like that, you can often stick insulation between the rafters and then gib underneath. You can then put in fake rafters back in if you want to maintain the appearance. Checking for unconsented work is really important. Insurance companies can use that sort of thing against you. Also make sure the floor area matches what is advertised and what the council has on record. Sometimes it can vary significantly, ad if you have to make an insurance claim you can end up with a far smaller house. But lawyer should be able to go through everything like this.

Bung

6484 posts

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#1888318 24-Oct-2017 05:40

WRT the fireplace I was thinking that hearth doesn't seem to extend out far enough. I don't think Council requirements have a "just leave a bottle of water by the fire instead" clause.

Fred99

13684 posts

Uber Geek

#1888370 24-Oct-2017 09:17

wellygary:

Jeeze, the fact that all those rafters should be parallel ( and likely at an even height and distance) just shows how deceptive real estate agent photos taken with super fisheye lenses have become :)

That's actually not from "fisheye" lens - but rectilinear correction in a "normal" wide-angle lens.

A true fisheye lens actually doesn't have correction, but straight lines that don't transect the centre of the frame end up being curved. The problem is in getting an image of a 3d world on a 2D flat piece of paper (or screen) - you have to distort (rectilinear "correction") to try to get it to look normal - or without correction then it looks very weird.

Sorry - a little off - topic, but if the real estate photos are "deceptive" in that way, it's probably not deliberate.

chimera

506 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1889073 25-Oct-2017 07:31

Slightly off topic, but personally I would ceiling batton and gib once you’ve done all alterations with insulation and downlights, it will help modernize it a lot and obviously help trap in some warmth. I’d always go with white or slightly off white ceilings to help give the impression of space. I would also remove the fireplace and opt for a heat pump, will give you more space and heat pumps are well more energy efficient. Of course, all that depends on your budget! As someone else mentioned earlier, live in it for a bit to see what changes would feel the best.

Louis1985

11 posts

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Inactive user

#1893338 31-Oct-2017 21:45

Thanks Chimera, have all those things planned actually, I’m a sparky so having downlights was a bit of a must, which would have required the cavity up there and would have chucked the insulation in for good measure. I think the current tenants mentioned the fireplace wasn’t operational so was looking into removing that too.

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Louis1985

11 posts

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Inactive user

#1893341 31-Oct-2017 22:06

UPDATE

Got the property file, wasn’t much besides four big pages of info but found these and wondered if they may help much, if anyone can interpret them that way

When I say help, I mean give me any info about bracing etc, as the wall circled in red (which has a door in the plan but not at the moment, is a brace wall or not for a start.
Thanks for any help

froob

692 posts

Ultimate Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#1893433 1-Nov-2017 08:28

I'm not a building professional, but the bracing appears to me to be in the exterior walls, in the form of diagonal 6 x 1 timber. I can't see any mention of that for the wall you're interested in. See the note on the RHS of the second sheet.

The wall running along the centre of the house (between bedrooms) appears to have the ceiling framing landing on it, and probably supports the ceiling joists, so would likely be load bearing. The lounge roof is obviously of different construction, without that wall for support.

In terms of practicalities, if you take out the wall in the kitchen, it doesn't look as though you would have a whole lot of wall space for cabinets and shelves.

As an aside, the wood burner doesn't look like it's on the plans. Is there a later consent shown in the LIM? Unconsented fireplaces can cause issues in terms of insurance, etc, on top of the safety risk.

As always, consult a professional.

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Louis1985

11 posts

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Inactive user

#1893510 1-Nov-2017 10:19

Thanks froob. Yea basically what I could interpret from that too but yea I will get an engineer in before I go and do anything.
As per the fireplace, yea we will probably take it down, no resource consent for it in the property file either

wally22

504 posts

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#1893530 1-Nov-2017 11:32

Louis1985: There is a roof space above the kitchen (so a regular kower and horizontal ceiling obviously than in that living area) not sure if there is access but happy to make one - if i get up there what should I look for in the framing of that wall that may determine if it's a bracewall?

If you get up above the kitchen ceiling you need to check if the rafters are continuous from the Ridge Beam to the outside (LBW) wall. I suspect that they will not, as I could not see rafter lines over the kitchen on the plans you posted. Anyway, if the rafters are not continuous, then that internal wall will be load bearing to carry the short rafters in the living area, and the trusses or roof framing, and the ceiling framing over the kitchen. If that is the case, you could put new continuous rafters in and remove the wall, with consent probably. it looks like only 3 Rafters involved, from the plans and picture. If you extend the rafters over what appears to be a laundry? area, then it gets a little more complex, but if you don't, then you will have a ceiling change at the junction. Tried to blow up your plan but it just made the blurriness larger.

Edit, just noticed "fibraplanks" on the plans. If they are still on the house, need to keep sealed as moisture will degrade them significantly.

kryptonjohn

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#1893592 1-Nov-2017 12:37

Elevation 3 shows a truss ceiling - different to the photo?

Bung

6484 posts

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#1893613 1-Nov-2017 13:29

The photo shows the lounge/dining area and the rafter/beam arrangement as on plan not the bedroom end of house.

The fireplace isn't shown on plan which could be a generic that was modified on site. I'd look at what's holding the pile of bricks up under the floor. I've seen some very tidy brickwork held up on a jumble of concrete blocks and wooden wedges.

MikeAqua

7780 posts

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#1893641 1-Nov-2017 13:57

The only rafters shown on the plan seem to be the exposed rafters in the lounge and dining areas. But the trusses aren't shown in the layout plan either.

Mike

Louis1985

11 posts

Geek
Inactive user

#1893723 1-Nov-2017 16:46

Yea I think I I'll just have to wait till settlement (4 weeks away) and getting into that roof space before being able to confirm anythjng.
Feel like the rafters 'should' go right through, as it seems it would be the easiest way to build it

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