How difficult to replace 2 way socket with 4 way

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#2520960 10-Jul-2020 22:08

robjg63: This one https://www.bunnings.co.nz/deta-white-quad-outlet-powerpoint_p0310450
Is a 4 port outlet that goes over a regular sized flush box.
So you won't have to change the box bit in the wall.

Is there any advantage to the four-way-over-four-way vs. four-way-over-two-way design?

Scott3

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#2520974 10-Jul-2020 23:33

neb: Is there any advantage to the four-way-over-four-way vs. four-way-over-two-way design?

If you are talking about mounting a quad socket over a standard (1/2 outlet flush box). Then a flush mount (low profile) won't fit. This means a quad socket that sticks out roughly 20mm from the wall will need to be sourced. Not as need & tidy, but perfectly functional.

I went this the route of swapping out a flush double socket with a protruding quad socket when I wanted some more sockets in my kitchen.

Note that you will rarely see quad sockets anywhere other than retrofits. My understanding is that 2x double sockets are cheaper than 1x quad socket, so putting multiple double sockets is the cost effective soultion in new builds where more outlets are requred.

My understanding is swapping a double outlet for a quad outlet is considered a "like for like" swap, making it a useful option as it is a legal DIY swap for owner occupiers, and does not require the underlying circuit be upgraded to have RCD protection.

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#2521006 11-Jul-2020 09:30

Scott3:

neb: Is there any advantage to the four-way-over-four-way vs. four-way-over-two-way design?

If you are talking about mounting a quad socket over a standard (1/2 outlet flush box). Then a flush mount (low profile) won't fit. This means a quad socket that sticks out roughly 20mm from the wall will need to be sourced. Not as need & tidy, but perfectly functional.

I went this the route of swapping out a flush double socket with a protruding quad socket when I wanted some more sockets in my kitchen.

Note that you will rarely see quad sockets anywhere other than retrofits. My understanding is that 2x double sockets are cheaper than 1x quad socket, so putting multiple double sockets is the cost effective soultion in new builds where more outlets are requred.

My understanding is swapping a double outlet for a quad outlet is considered a "like for like" swap, making it a useful option as it is a legal DIY swap for owner occupiers, and does not require the underlying circuit be upgraded to have RCD protection.

While the above is correct, no RCD required and it's considered a like for like swap, the OP hasn't said or posted pictures of what is already there, it could be one of those really old double wide PDL 400 series sockets, a modern 4 way socket is just not going to fit.

It may also be old NON-TPS wiring (rubber or fabric insulated), this been the case the home owner can't do the change of socket. So more information is required about what is currently there.

Bung

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#2521009 11-Jul-2020 09:41

prob:
Not keen on external power strip. I want it to look tidy. I appreciate that the load will be restricted to about 2,000 watts

As posted by OP

Paul1977

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#2521012 11-Jul-2020 09:46

gregmcc

It may also be old NON-TPS wiring (rubber or fabric insulated), this been the case the home owner can't do the change of socket. So more information is required about what is currently there.

Are you sure about that? I thought the home owner could do a like for like swap on older cabling, but couldn't move or reposition any cabling unless it was TPS.

Bung

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#2521030 11-Jul-2020 10:43

Restrictions on cable type aren't laid out in plain sight. The ESRs 2010 allow an exemption for work carried out under ECP 51
Then the ECP says

"This Code does NOT apply to:
(a) the wiring of meter-boxes or switchboards;
(b) electrical installations of swimming pools, paddling pools or spa
pools, saunas, fountains or water features;
(c) the use of wiring in conduits (either metal or plastic), neutral
screen or armoured type wiring;
(d) the installation of telecommunications, security or fire alarm
systems."

AFAIK that would catch VIR in conduit.

Reality is any cable type can be a bird's nest behind the switch plate.

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#2521076 11-Jul-2020 13:12

The 600 series ones (PDL644) mount surface over a standard horizontal flushbox. I think the Legrand ones are the same.

Won't match the Iconic you have elsewhere, though.

k1w1k1d

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#2521196 11-Jul-2020 16:55

I would suggest to pop the existing 2 way socket out from the wall to see how it is mounted. Take some photos and measurements and then go shopping to see what is available to swap it for a 4 way socket.

Turn the circuit breaker off before doing this.

We have PDL 600's and I have replaced a couple of the 2 way sockets with 4 way ones. Was very easy as the 4 way ones have screw holes that line up with the holes in the original flush boxes. The connections also fit into the flush box. As previously advised they just stick out a bit more.

prob

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#2521208 11-Jul-2020 17:21

Here it is.

So sounds like I need to get a PDL395H4-VW and a PDL395H4XXUAG

k1w1k1d

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#2521227 11-Jul-2020 17:48

I think you need a PDL395H4-VW 4 way socket and a PDL395H4MB-VW mounting block to space it out from the wall.

openmedia

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#2524238 16-Jul-2020 17:32

Froglotion:

Stick with Clipsal / PDL and not Bunnings spec stuff.

That trademe link looks what you need. As mentioned one screw will just have to go into gib. So just use a suitable screw in wall anchor. Not a major as unless you have off the socket, it will hold solid.

Whats the issue with Delta and similar brands vs PDL / HPM as there is a huge price difference at retail.

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#2524240 16-Jul-2020 17:36

openmedia:

Froglotion:

Stick with Clipsal / PDL and not Bunnings spec stuff.

That trademe link looks what you need. As mentioned one screw will just have to go into gib. So just use a suitable screw in wall anchor. Not a major as unless you have off the socket, it will hold solid.

Whats the issue with Delta and similar brands vs PDL / HPM as there is a huge price difference at retail.

PDL/HPM have been tried and proved to be reliable, they are well supported in NZ. Deta and such like are the bottom end fittings, I've seen many failures of these switches, burnt out sockets.

With these cheap brands, it's just not worth the hassle of dealing with an unreliable product.

neb

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#2524241 16-Jul-2020 17:39

openmedia:
Whats the issue with Delta and similar brands vs PDL / HPM as there is a huge price difference at retail.

PDL / HPM is made in a factory in China on the 9-to-5 shift.

Deta is made in the same factory on the 5-to-9 shift.

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#2524381 16-Jul-2020 21:05

PDL is Vietnam, I think.

Deta light fittings are *awful*, though some name brand ones are too.

It can vary, but poor quality sockets and switches can have bad contacts in them, both in the switch part and the socket part.

Plug something into cheap sockets a couple of dozen times and you'll be tearing your hair out and replacing them. Some are really stiff and the shutters get in the way; this is annoying.. Others are loose which means the plug pulls out easily, and potential for loose connections. This frequently develops into a fire.

600 series and Legrand Excel Life are roughly equal best IMHO. Haven't dealt with Iconic or PDL Pro yet so can't comment on them. At commercial pricing it's a $5 difference between budget and 600 series.

Avoid Excel life switches; I've seen several plain random failures and every switch feels slightly different - never a good sign. PDL's 600 series switches have gone a bit downhill too; I've seen several fried, but that appears to be more when used in commercial settings upwards of 10A. They're still fine at lower loads.

See if you can get a paper specials book/magazine/trade rag from your local electrical wholesaler. I don't think they can turn down advertised pricing to walk-in customers.

richms

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#2524576 17-Jul-2020 10:08

openmedia:

Whats the issue with Delta and similar brands vs PDL / HPM as there is a huge price difference at retail.

HPM excel series has been trash and I would never use them again, switch dollys had a history of breaking and HPM seem to have had many occasions with bad plastics going brittle even in indoor direct sunlight. Their other ones I havent used because they're IMO ugly AF, as is the PDL iconics.

Deta have their act together and sparkies just hate on them because they sell retail to people doing DIY, price isnt that low on deta - it is if you are looking compared to counter priced PDL at a wholesaler, but for trade price there isnt much in it compared to clipsal or pdl at a wholesaler. Again, HPM is off the list because of a history of crap plastics.

Richard rich.ms

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