How much space does a fridge-freezer really need?

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#2590852 23-Oct-2020 15:23

jonathan18:

Haha, smart@rse! Link fixed - it should have been pointing to https://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=5319553 for the LG.

I do have access to Consumer, so will check this out in detail, but are you sure it's favourable (or is that another one of your little jokes?!)? My reading shows it as a 'don't buy' recommendation.

I said that they did not have a favorable outlook on it... starting the Friday libations early, eh? 😜

At least the LG one looks alright; I'd only ever heard to stay away from LG or Samsung previously for their reliability and servicing issues, so looks like they have made improvements... Or I may be thinking of washing machines... 🤔

From the manual, it seems like LG's specific concern is heat-soaking making it work harder:

Too small of a distance from adjacent items may result in the degradation of freezing capability and increased electricity costs. Allow over 50mm of clearance from each adjacent wall when installing the appliance.

Is it in a completely enclosed space like a kitchen cabinet etc? Are there other ways of getting ventilation to the rear?

Edit: just read your comments on the space, a 5-7cm gap near the rear might be enough to allow decent passive airflow in a chimney-ish fashion if I am imagining correctly.

Paul1977

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#2591969 26-Oct-2020 10:21

jonathan18:

Thanks for checking this out - looks like you're talking of this range? https://pricespy.co.nz/search?search=rf442 .

Interesting that it allows for a relatively narrow cavity - it certainly does appear to be the best bet for the space, and is a bit larger than the current fridge (a good thing - ours is always full and our boys are only going to be eating more!). Noting my concerns re F&P quality covered above, I'd just need to be convinced we'd not have the same problems with this model!

@jonathan18 I think all of the following have the same size & clearance requirements:

https://www.fisherpaykel.com/nz/cooling/refrigeration/contemporary-refrigeration/freestanding-refrigerator-freezer-68cm-442l-rf442brpx6-25583.html

https://www.fisherpaykel.com/nz/cooling/refrigeration/contemporary-refrigeration/freestanding-refrigerator-freezer-68cm-442l-rf442brpux6-25582.html

https://www.fisherpaykel.com/nz/cooling/refrigeration/contemporary-refrigeration/freestanding-refrigerator-freezer-68cm-442l-e442brwfd5-25080.html

https://www.fisherpaykel.com/nz/cooling/refrigeration/contemporary-refrigeration/freestanding-refrigerator-freezer-68cm-442l-e442brxfd5-25541.html

I think it's pretty widely accepted that most things are of lower quality these days and don't last as long. We had an old F&P that we purchased second hand and had for about 13 years ourselves that never had any issues (we sold it and was still working fine). We have recently purchased a new "Series 7" F&P (not one of the above) but haven't had it anywhere near long enough to give an endorsement. We went Fisher & Paykel mainly for the size (shallow doors protrude less into the kitchen) and smaller clearance requirements.

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#2591973 26-Oct-2020 10:43

As an antidote, previous occupants of my house (one of whom was an engineer at a major white ware maker), decided to throw caution to the wind and simple wedge the biggest fridge they could into the hole.

First one they got had slightly bowed sides, meaning the fridge was wider than the published width and wouldn't fit in the hole.

A different fridge was installed and has run fine for several years with less than 10mm side clearance (I think the documents called for something like 50mm side clearance). Aware that the fridge will be less efficient, may struggle at upper limit of ambient temperature, and could have a shorter life, but it has been functionally fine for us so far.

shk292: How is side space related to heat dissipation? Every fridge I’ve ever seen dissipates its heat from the back, that’s where the condenser is. The sides are comprised of insulation and the outer case and if anything will absorb heat from the surrounding air
Provided there’s a way for air to circulate to the back, I can’t see what the problem is

Hammerer:

Space at the back is more important because that is where the heat comes out.

Some units use the sides to dissipate heat but they would state this in the manual or specs. I was just looking at mid-size up-and-down fridge-freezers and none of them had radiators in the side.

In modern fridges it is extremely common (almost universal?) to have side mounted radiators. Quite rare to see an old style externally mounted rear radiator these days. Side mounted radiators have the pipes under the metal sides of the fridge, and use the sides to dissipate heat. As such they are not visible, but when the fridge is working hard, the sides will be warm to the touch.

This approach has the added advantage advantage of preventing condensation and associated mold on the side of the fridges.

Some commercially focused models do use a fan forced radiator in the rear instead. These are designed to cope with much more frequent opening and addition of warm goods than residential models.

jonathan18

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#2591980 26-Oct-2020 11:20

In the end my wife couldn’t stomach another F&P, as the interior of the standard upright models hasn’t really changed in over 20 years, eg the plastic crisper sheet that sits over the vegetable drawers seems just as flimsy and prone to fall down onto the drawers. The main benefit of the F&Ps, which none of the other brands seem to emulate, is the huge range of shelf height settings - can’t work out why this isn’t common.

We had basically decided to go for the Haier as it was somewhat shallower and was fairly well designed, but in the end the low rating for trouble-free operation in the Consumer survey (only beaten to the bottom by Beko) and having a standard compressor were enough to put us off this.

So, yep, we have accepted having 2cm space on each side and will see how it goes.

Have gone with what I think may be a slightly older version of the LG linked to earlier - the compressor, while an inverter, does appear to be not so advanced as the current model (3.5 stars vs 4.5), but a 450l fridge/freezer for $1079 is a pretty good deal.

https://www.noelleeming.co.nz/shop/whiteware-kitchen-appliances/kitchen-whiteware-and-white-appliances/fridges-freezers-and-refrigerators/bottom-mount-fridge-freezers/lg-gf-455uple-454l-bottom-mount-fridge/prod188461.html

The gap above this fridge is going to be pretty small, but it’ll be fairly easy (if a little ugly) to lift the bookcase up a few cms - would this be advisable, especially given the side gap will be so minimal?

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#2592017 26-Oct-2020 14:14

Most modern fridges have the condenser buried under the sheetmetal of the sides and back, rather than the old-school exposed piping on the back. It's more resistant to damage and looks cleaner. Our current F&P model is this, as with most new fridges. I agree that the interior is awful.

The compressor is the black steel cylinder in the bottom; the condenser is the part that sheds heat by condensing refrigerant.

SCUBADOO

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#2592020 26-Oct-2020 15:05

We have a domestic Samsung 255l digital inverter fridge permanently installed in our motorhome. It has survived 6 years of full-time travel and has operated perfectly powered by a dedicated 300W inverter. Neither has ever been turned off.

Side gaps about 6mm, top 50mm and 100mm at the rear.

Paul1977

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#2592319 27-Oct-2020 10:27

SomeoneSomewhere:

Most modern fridges have the condenser buried under the sheetmetal of the sides and back, rather than the old-school exposed piping on the back. It's more resistant to damage and looks cleaner. Our current F&P model is this, as with most new fridges. I agree that the interior is awful.

The compressor is the black steel cylinder in the bottom; the condenser is the part that sheds heat by condensing refrigerant.

What's so awful about the interior of the F&P? Our new one is admittedly a larger model than the OP would have been looking at, but we don't really have any complaints about the interior. My only complaint so far (other than how difficult it was to unpack and move into place) is the ice bin - unless you are constantly using heap of ice, the cubes all stick together and form a big solid lump of ice in the bin.

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trig42

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#2592340 27-Oct-2020 10:47

Paul1977:

SomeoneSomewhere:

Most modern fridges have the condenser buried under the sheetmetal of the sides and back, rather than the old-school exposed piping on the back. It's more resistant to damage and looks cleaner. Our current F&P model is this, as with most new fridges. I agree that the interior is awful.

The compressor is the black steel cylinder in the bottom; the condenser is the part that sheds heat by condensing refrigerant.

What's so awful about the interior of the F&P? Our new one is admittedly a larger model than the OP would have been looking at, but we don't really have any complaints about the interior. My only complaint so far (other than how difficult it was to unpack and move into place) is the ice bin - unless you are constantly using heap of ice, the cubes all stick together and form a big solid lump of ice in the bin.

We have an Ice/Water F&P (402L), and I find the same thing.

We do use a bit of ice though, and whenever I go to get more, I give it a good stir up. Keeps it forming a big lump for a few weeks. Every couple of months, I empty the 'good' ice into a bowl and keep that in the freezer while I empty out the bin and clean it out (and make sure it's dry before putting it back), putting the ice in the bowl back into the bin so we have enough for Gin that afternoon :)

Paul1977

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#2592362 27-Oct-2020 11:19

trig42:

We have an Ice/Water F&P (402L), and I find the same thing.

We do use a bit of ice though, and whenever I go to get more, I give it a good stir up. Keeps it forming a big lump for a few weeks. Every couple of months, I empty the 'good' ice into a bowl and keep that in the freezer while I empty out the bin and clean it out (and make sure it's dry before putting it back), putting the ice in the bowl back into the bin so we have enough for Gin that afternoon :)

Our problem is it's impossible to stir it up when it's full to the brim. It needs a setting to only full the bin 1/2 or 2/3.

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#2592480 27-Oct-2020 16:56

The lids on the butter container things at the top of the door invariably get hit and broken because they get stuck up, and then hit the main fridge as you close the door.

As has been mentioned in other places, the plastic tray thing above the vege drawers

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#2592483 27-Oct-2020 16:58

For some very anecdotal evidence, sample size of one....

We put a LG fridge/freezer (big French door style one) in a gap with barely 10mm each side and push right back in. Ticked along just fine for the last few years.

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#2592486 27-Oct-2020 17:16

Pretty happy with our Mitsubishi fridge/freezer - pretty narrow but a little deeper than your space (but not huge). Only had it for 3 years so can't say anything about how well it lasts.

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jonathan18

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#2593807 30-Oct-2020 09:18

jonathan18:

The gap above this fridge is going to be pretty small, but it’ll be fairly easy (if a little ugly) to lift the bookcase up a few cms - would this be advisable, especially given the side gap will be so minimal (2cm each side)?

Any thoughts on this question?

The top gap at the front will otherwise be only 1-2cm (noting at the back it has no such impediment as the cupboard stops about 12cm before the wall). I'd rather not shift the cupboard up (as the exposed side will be a bit ugly, even if painted to match) but if there's a benefit to (or a reduced risk by) doing so I'm happy to do this.

Thanks!

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#2593809 30-Oct-2020 09:23

if there is a large 12cm gap at the back and air can escape freely behind what ever is there it will be fine.

Fred99

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#2593916 30-Oct-2020 12:32

Paul1977:

trig42:

We have an Ice/Water F&P (402L), and I find the same thing.

We do use a bit of ice though, and whenever I go to get more, I give it a good stir up. Keeps it forming a big lump for a few weeks. Every couple of months, I empty the 'good' ice into a bowl and keep that in the freezer while I empty out the bin and clean it out (and make sure it's dry before putting it back), putting the ice in the bowl back into the bin so we have enough for Gin that afternoon :)

Our problem is it's impossible to stir it up when it's full to the brim. It needs a setting to only full the bin 1/2 or 2/3.

Maybe put something like a tupperware container if you can find one the right size in the bottom of the tray to part fill it. You could of course just turn the icemaker off when the tray is part full, and turn it back on when you need more. But I know what would happen around here.

My grizzle is that it's hard to get the big lump of solidified ice cubes out, I'm scared I'm going to break the tray. (without the smaller tray in there, the entire bin underneath will fill with ice cubes).

One issue I had with our fridge was it shut down due to dust building up on the fan/condenser at the back, I think (not sure) that the fan motor has overheat protection, was working too hard, the fridge basically shut down. IIRC there was a red warning light flashing, but on a circuit board/box at the back of the fridge where you can't see it. It would be much better if it sounded an alarm or something obvious. Was going to call service/warranty but had a look and saw the issue, gave it a clean out, and it's worked fine ever since. This was when I'd been doing some building renovation work hence lots of dust, but I pull it right out and give that part of the fridge a good cleanout when doing regular cleaning behind and on the sides.

Another annoyance is the water filter change notification. You have to change the filter at reasonable intervals, but not regular enough so the button combination to reset it is embedded in my memory - I have to google it every time.

Despite small annoyances, I think they're very good fridges. We entertain a bit, the french door system works for large trays that would never fit in a "normal" single-door fridge unless it was huge.

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