How much space does a fridge-freezer really need?

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jonathan18

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#279563 23-Oct-2020 12:08

I'm looking at options to replace our current fridge/freezer, but there are few (non-F&P) models that are a similar size to ours, so I'm wondering about the feasibility of putting a slightly larger one in the same space.

Two companies - Samsung and LG - both say their products need 50mm each side: in practice, how much space does a fridge/freezer need to have? Is this critical to its operation?

The space in our kitchen is 740mm wide / 590mm deep (yep, that shallow...) / 1740mm high.

Current fridge is 640 / 660 / 1710.

Looking at something like an LG at 700 / 700 / 1720, which would leave only 20mm each side and it jutting out even further than the current one.

Or there's a Beko at 700 / 660 / 1700, so same width but shallower.

Advice on whether you think we can get away with either or both of these models, or general advice on this matter, would be much appreciated.

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#2590714 23-Oct-2020 12:13

You need to check the specs on each fridge as they are all different. I think the side and back clearances are the most critical. The top can usually be less if you have ventilation behind the cabinet above the fridge. (usually the case)

The fridge doors usually work better sitting outside the cabinetry... it just depends on how far out you are will to go. There is a Samsung fridge out there that is deeper than my house (not literally)

Can you recess the back of it into the wall without destroying your house? Do not recess into a load bearing wall :)

I'm not a complete idiot, I still have some parts missing.

jonathan18

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#2590718 23-Oct-2020 12:21

Thanks, I'm aware that each model will list the required/recommended distances, and I know I won't be able to meet these for these slightly larger models; my question is more related to the real-world need (given companies will sometimes provide a wide tolerance to provide butt-covering).

I'm probably ok with the fridge sitting out further, as it's only 3-4cm more; my concern is more with that width (20mm each side) - is this likely to have a real-world impact?

sittingduckz

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#2590721 23-Oct-2020 12:25

jonathan18:

Thanks, I'm aware that each model will list the required/recommended distances, and I know I won't be able to meet these for these slightly larger models; my question is more related to the real-world need (given companies will sometimes provide a wide tolerance to provide butt-covering).

I'm probably ok with the fridge sitting out further, as it's only 3-4cm more; my concern is more with that width (20mm each side) - is this likely to have a real-world impact?

It's also covering your butt as well. if you have an issue and they come to repair it may void the warranty. I think the sides help to dissipate heat from the unit.

They are probably being precious about it, but will enforce it.

I'm not a complete idiot, I still have some parts missing.

Paul1977

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#2590732 23-Oct-2020 12:51

Are you specifically wanting to avoid another F&P? They do a 680mm wide model that says can go in a cavity as narrow as 720mm.

To have the front of the chassis flush it wants 620 depth, so the chassis would need to stick out 30mm in front of your shallower cavity. However F&P have quite shallow doors compared to many fridges which would counteract this a fair bit.

EDIT: requires cavity height of 1735mm, so would be a pretty good fit.

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#2590735 23-Oct-2020 12:52

Reducing the side clearance by 1/2 can reduce airflow to as little as 1/4 because airflow is non-linear. In pipes, a reduction in diameter to 1/2 can reduce flow to 1/16.

This effect will be worsen if your fridge dissipates heat through the sides. It doesn't look like the Beko does that. I couldn't check the LG because link just goes to the Beko.

You can get away with halving the side clearance but you will definitely be increasing your costs and reducing the useful life of the fridge:

* Increasing heat buildup behind the fridge will increase your refrigeration costs.
* Compressors are noisier when they are working harder.
* It is more likely to exceed the recommended operating temperature (the Beko is "designed to function at ambient temperatures up to 43 °C ") on a hot humid day in a kitchen without air conditioning.
* Heat buildup can be extreme enough to cause refrigeration failure (can't maintain low enough temperature) and ultimately compressor failure.

That's why higher top clearance (10cm on the Beko) or venting is needed to allow most of the heat to dissipate from the bottom back of the fridge.

Consumer NZ say clearances can be a lot higher:

https://www.consumer.org.nz/articles/fridge-freezers-features-to-look-for

Remember to allow ventilation space on the sides, back and top. It’s usually around 5cm, but ask the dealer for the exact requirements. The top can require up to 30cm clearance!

ShinyChrome

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#2590753 23-Oct-2020 13:41

jonathan18:

Looking at something like an LG at 700 / 700 / 1720, which would leave only 20mm each side and it jutting out even further than the current one.

Or there's a Beko at 700 / 660 / 1700, so same width but shallower.

These fridges all look the same, probably come from the same factory too!

Also, I don't know if you have a Consumer sub, or put much stock in their take, but they did not have a favorable outlook on that particular Beko model

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#2590759 23-Oct-2020 13:54

Not having the manufacturers recommended clearance could also void insurance should something happen because of a tight installation. That would be my biggest concern.

pih

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#2590761 23-Oct-2020 14:00

Also bear in mind it's not just a cooling issue - you need enough airflow for adequate evaporation of the condensate. Without this the drip tray will overflow and your fridge will leak puddles of water on the floor.

jonathan18

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#2590767 23-Oct-2020 14:05

ShinyChrome:

jonathan18:

Looking at something like an LG at 700 / 700 / 1720, which would leave only 20mm each side and it jutting out even further than the current one.

Or there's a Beko at 700 / 660 / 1700, so same width but shallower.

These fridges all look the same, probably come from the same factory too!

Also, I don't know if you have a Consumer sub, or put much stock in their take, but they did not have a favorable outlook on that particular Beko model

Haha, smart@rse! Link fixed - it should have been pointing to https://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=5319553 for the LG.

I do have access to Consumer, so will check this out in detail, but are you sure it's favourable (or is that another one of your little jokes?!)? My reading shows it as a 'don't buy' recommendation.

jonathan18

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#2590814 23-Oct-2020 14:19

Thanks for all the informative posts; apologies for the incorrect link to the LG, which I've fixed now in the original post (which should have pointed to https://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=5319553). BTW, this fridge is currently the top pick in Consumer's test.

Ok, so certainly some food for thought before going down this larger fridge route.

There is a gap in the back of the cupboard above the fridge that opens into the room (about 5-7cm I'd guess), which would help to some degree I guess; annoyingly, there would have been space to make the fridge space about five cm wider without much issue, and while this could be expanded it would be a hassle (given the cupboard).

Are there small fans that could be placed in particular locations to help improve airflow?

I guess we should take a look at what the current range of F&P fridges are like, but our view has been tainted by our experience with our current and previous models (the 373 then 402 litre bog-standard ones). The crud handle that's broken; the brittle plastic in the vege compartments; that plastic sheet that sits over top of the vege compartments and always falls down (unless it's taped in place), the recent problem with the frozen-over drainage duct leading to water pooling underneath (and not having that ducting easily available to defrost)... Perhaps they're better-quality now, though?

Bung

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#2590817 23-Oct-2020 14:32

Hammerer:
Reducing the side clearance by 1/2 can reduce airflow to as little as 1/4 because airflow is non-linear. In pipes, a reduction in diameter to 1/2 can reduce flow to 1/16.

This effect will be worsen if your fridge dissipates heat through the sides. It doesn't look like the Beko does that. I couldn't check the LG because link just goes to the Beko.

You can get away with halving the side clearance but you will definitely be increasing your costs and reducing the useful life of the fridge:

* Increasing heat buildup behind the fridge will increase your refrigeration costs.
* Compressors are noisier when they are working harder.
* It is more likely to exceed the recommended operating temperature (the Beko is "designed to function at ambient temperatures up to 43 °C ") on a hot humid day in a kitchen without air conditioning.
* Heat buildup can be extreme enough to cause refrigeration failure (can't maintain low enough temperature) and ultimately compressor failure.

That's why higher top clearance (10cm on the Beko) or venting is needed to allow most of the heat to dissipate from the bottom back of the fridge.

The gaps around the fridge aren't circular pipes.

If a fridge freezer is specified for Australian temps up to 43C is it likely that you'd get anywhere near max Temps in NZ?

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jonathan18

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#2590820 23-Oct-2020 14:35

Paul1977:

Are you specifically wanting to avoid another F&P? They do a 680mm wide model that says can go in a cavity as narrow as 720mm.

To have the front of the chassis flush it wants 620 depth, so the chassis would need to stick out 30mm in front of your shallower cavity. However F&P have quite shallow doors compared to many fridges which would counteract this a fair bit.

EDIT: requires cavity height of 1735mm, so would be a pretty good fit.

Thanks for checking this out - looks like you're talking of this range? https://pricespy.co.nz/search?search=rf442 .

Interesting that it allows for a relatively narrow cavity - it certainly does appear to be the best bet for the space, and is a bit larger than the current fridge (a good thing - ours is always full and our boys are only going to be eating more!). Noting my concerns re F&P quality covered above, I'd just need to be convinced we'd not have the same problems with this model!

shk292

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#2590825 23-Oct-2020 14:46

How is side space related to heat dissipation? Every fridge I’ve ever seen dissipates its heat from the back, that’s where the condenser is. The sides are comprised of insulation and the outer case and if anything will absorb heat from the surrounding air
Provided there’s a way for air to circulate to the back, I can’t see what the problem is

jonathan18

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#2590839 23-Oct-2020 15:06

Haier make a 450l model that's relatively shallow (676mm) but is 700mm wide with a claimed 50mm clearance each side.

https://www.farmers.co.nz/electrical/whiteware/fridges-freezers/haier-450l-bottom-mount-fridge-freezer-hrf450bs2-6556150

So which is more important - additional space at the back (noting the point above, ie this is where the compressor is), or at the sides? Going with the F&P because it is narrower and specifies a 20mm gap is ok or going with something like this Haier, which may be 20mm wider but is also 19mm shallower plus is (and this is a distinct benefit) currently about $600 cheaper? (Plus it aint a F&P - looking at the photos on their website, it looks like they still use the same vege chiller design.)

Consumer ratings and energy star comparison of these specific models:

LG 81% / 4.5*

F&P 77% / 3*

Haier 73% /4*

Hammerer

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#2590843 23-Oct-2020 15:13

Space at the back is more important because that is where the heat comes out.

Some units use the sides to dissipate heat but they would state this in the manual or specs. I was just looking at mid-size up-and-down fridge-freezers and none of them had radiators in the side.

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