Vynco electrical gear quality ok?

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#2661659 23-Feb-2021 10:52

Handle9:

Why would you bother? Unless it's exposed to sun light a well installed plastic board will last as long as a metal board.

It's exposed to sunlight an hour a day or so. Because we open and close it more than most people my concern is the little plastic lugs will snap off like SomeoneSomewhere said, and pauls25 has an interesting point that plastic are no longer permitted in the UK. NZ building standards are usually way behind more developed countries, so I'd rather go for best international practice than just meeting the building code.

timmmay

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#2661661 23-Feb-2021 10:53

SomeoneSomewhere:

40 ways is honestly on the small side for replacing an existing board, especially given you have stuff like multiple timers. It's not 40 circuits; you need to allow space for the RCDs, timers, main switch etc., and the plastic shallow boards are small enough that you basically can't actually fill them with gear, fit cable around them, and close the lid.

The plastic boards are *awful* to close up and I regularly see the hinge pins broken off on the doors. This goes for both the PDL and Vynco ones.

My experience with the Vynco breakers has been pretty good; they're re-sold GE. My understanding is that there's a *significant* price difference to Schneider when bought in volume.

Honestly the Teubels ones aren't much better for getting the door on. The modern commercial boards spoil me; I need to hunt down some good cheap domestic ones.

That's interesting and useful, thanks. I'll ask the electrician about getting something more robust.

pauls25:

The main advantage of a metal over a plastic switchboard is that metal doesn’t burn in the unlikely event of a fault. In the UK, plastic switchboard enclosures are not permitted anymore for this reason.

Loose connections are usually the cause of switchboard fires so as long as everything is tightened correctly there won’t be an issue. Not sure if it is common practice here to use a torque screwdriver and tighten everything to manufacturers specifications but that appears to be the best way to guarantee everything is tightened correctly.

Very useful thanks, I'll push the metal angle.

lxsw20

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#2661673 23-Feb-2021 11:26

At one stage metal boards were not permitted in the UK. Standards are always changing. Who's to say in 5 years it doesn't swing back the other way.

timmmay

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#2661739 23-Feb-2021 12:21

lxsw20:

At one stage metal boards were not permitted in the UK. Standards are always changing. Who's to say in 5 years it doesn't swing back the other way.

Fair call :)

Daynger

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#2661963 23-Feb-2021 21:34

pauls25:

The main advantage of a metal over a plastic switchboard is that metal doesn’t burn in the unlikely event of a fault. In the UK, plastic switchboard enclosures are not permitted anymore for this reason.

Plastics used for electrical equipment dont burn either, they will melt, but not burn.

If it does it doesnt comply with NZ electrical standards.

SomeoneSomewhere

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#2661964 23-Feb-2021 21:39

There are some videos of people putting it to the test (at least for UK plastics, which is presumably similar), and it seems to be somewhat variable. They generally do no worse than gently smoulder.

Metal switchboards have their own woes. They're invariably earthed for obvious reasons, and in certain faults (lost main neutral) can become live, preventing you switching the power off. Less of an issue if the board is mounted indoors vs outside where you might need to stand somewhere wet.

catdog

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#2662735 25-Feb-2021 17:52

timmmay:

Thanks all, that's really useful. We have some timers in the switchboard so we open and close it a bit more than average, maybe once a month. I expect most people never touch theirs. I'm mostly thinking things like doors snapping off, plastic discoloring, that sort of thing.

I have a Vynco (I'm guessing it's the V20), and one door has broken off. It has a bit of discolouration, which is mostly noticeable due to the difference between inside being whiter that the yellowed outside, but it's not too bad given that the house is ~18yrs old.

I'm considering replacing it with a 40 slot since I've run out of space - @timmmay would you mind sharing your quotes (via PM if more appropriate) so I have an accurate ballpark number in mind before talking to my sparky?

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timmmay

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#2662761 25-Feb-2021 19:46

catdog:

timmmay:

Thanks all, that's really useful. We have some timers in the switchboard so we open and close it a bit more than average, maybe once a month. I expect most people never touch theirs. I'm mostly thinking things like doors snapping off, plastic discoloring, that sort of thing.

I have a Vynco (I'm guessing it's the V20), and one door has broken off. It has a bit of discolouration, which is mostly noticeable due to the difference between inside being whiter that the yellowed outside, but it's not too bad given that the house is ~18yrs old.

I'm considering replacing it with a 40 slot since I've run out of space - @timmmay would you mind sharing your quotes (via PM if more appropriate) so I have an accurate ballpark number in mind before talking to my sparky?

That's not bad for 18 years, but I wonder if our increased usage of timers would have it fail more quickly.

Quote for replacement of a very old asbestos switchboard from two different electricians is about $1400 for the place using Vynco everything, $2700 for another who's using PDL DBF30 switchboard and Vynco RCBOs (not sure what an RCBO is). The more expensive quote is from an electrician I've used for years who always charge more than I would expect, which is why I got a second quote. I liked the guy who gave the cheaper quote, but he's not replied to my questions so I'll have to call him to follow up.

Handle9

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#2662762 25-Feb-2021 19:47

RCBO is an RCD and breaker in one.

timmmay

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#2662774 25-Feb-2021 20:17

Handle9:

RCBO is an RCD and breaker in one.

Interesting. I thought there would be one large RCD and a bunch of smaller breakers, but I guess it makes little difference. I'm getting mixed opinions on Vynco, snnet said gave up the brand because it looks like he had to turn all breakers off then on again which just sounds weird.

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#2662776 25-Feb-2021 20:20

timmmay:

Handle9:

RCBO is an RCD and breaker in one.

Interesting. I thought there would be one large RCD and a bunch of smaller breakers, but I guess it makes little difference. I'm getting mixed opinions on Vynco, snnet said gave up the brand because it looks like he had to turn all breakers off then on again which just sounds weird.

You have to have 1 RCD for 3 circuits. RCDs are normally double width compared to a circuit breaker so using RCBOs saves you significant board space.

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#2662777 25-Feb-2021 20:21

timmmay:

Interesting. I thought there would be one large RCD and a bunch of smaller breakers, but I guess it makes little difference. I'm getting mixed opinions on Vynco, snnet said gave up the brand because it looks like he had to turn all breakers off then on again which just sounds weird.

If you're cheap that is how you do it, but then one trip will take 3 circuits out. Before there was the 3 circuit limit some sparkies would put 2 in for the entire house, and often use 40A ones with lots more than 40A off it which never sat right with me despite them assuring me its legit because of some tables of stuff in the regs that they follow.

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snnet

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#2662796 25-Feb-2021 20:38

It's very common in NZ to use the one RCCB and 3 sub circuit breakers after it. In Australia they opt for individual RCBOs - but they might change their mind soon because the ones they use are not legal for use in NZ (don't disconnect neutral pole) and the regulation for that is changing in Australia (or may have been ammended already) so they'll either have to hike their prices big time as you saw in your first quote @timmmay or they'll be making the move to 3 sub circuits per RCCB (especially group housing!)

I wouldn't say the first guy is ripping you for what has been quoted (RCBOs do drive the price up a lot), but you might be able to get him to price it cheaper (more in line with the other) if he doesn't use RCBOs

snnet

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#2662800 25-Feb-2021 20:45

richms:

If you're cheap that is how you do it, but then one trip will take 3 circuits out. Before there was the 3 circuit limit some sparkies would put 2 in for the entire house, and often use 40A ones with lots more than 40A off it which never sat right with me despite them assuring me its legit because of some tables of stuff in the regs that they follow.

I'd agree bad practice especially with only two in an installation - I've always used supply rated ones for this - in the case of 1 RCCB per 3 subcircuits they could get away with 40A if they follow the cable derating rules that were ammended a few years back - 2.5mm cables at 16A max and 1.0mm cables at 6A max (two power and one lighting circuit would equal 38A)

For the cost difference I just throw in 63A RCCBs. Really not a lot more and gives peace of mind to the max current that it will allow to pass thru as an RCCB is not a current limiter device and is therefore only really relying on the service fusing if it's the first switchboard from the point of supply - so the breakers after it pulling too much current will likely cause the RCCB to fail/melt etc

timmmay

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#2662807 25-Feb-2021 21:12

The single RCD thing was just my assumption based on knowing nothing.

@snnet what's the difference between an RCCB and RCBO? A quick google suggests RCCB is a residual current device but doesn't have overload protection (circuit breaker) whereas the RCBO has both RCD and a circuit breaker built in. An RCBO sounds better to me. Also sounds like an RCB with three separate circuit breakers (MCBs) after it would do a similar job?

Not sure if this is relevant, but we use Electric Kiwi and have a free hour of power a day so for an hour a day we put a lot of current through. Two big heat pumps, a fan heather, clothes drier, dish washer, hot water cylinder, maybe 50A.

My two quotes are:

$2700 company: Flush mount switchboard (PDL), upgrade to include MCBs and Vynco RCBOs and keep existing time clocks in their current configuration.
$1400 company: A new recessed distribution board will be installed (Vynco), complete with main switch, Vynco RCCB safety switches and MCB’s. Connection of all sub-circuits to new sub circuit protective devices.

The price difference is not as important to us as quality and longevity. Any thoughts?

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